JazzyFresh
Banned
What do you do with him though? Honest question. Where does he really fit in Quins system? He's decent but not great around the rim, he's not a great shooter from three, he has no mid-range.
Jazz @ Indiana Pace Cars
- Thread starter Ferguson_Mellochill
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I guess, you want to argue for the sake of arguing at this point, pages after pages. And you just said this:
Committing a turnover on a fb for Dante isn't anything new. But I can't recall someone running at full speed towards the basket with his head completely turned around scanning for teammates. Like at least you look at where you are going.
it was a sarcastic post. How did you miss that when the /s was LITERALLY typed in it?
Sorry for my failed attempt at humor, I guess. Maybe I need to type /s several times in a post so people know I’m being sarcastic?
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latin jazz
Well-Known Member
Easy there, going into DB/AH territory. I wasn't aware /s is used to let people know you are being sarcastic (or that there was the need for it, after all, sarcasm is subtle). I don't use social media or forums like reddit.
I sure as hell hope so. This has been going on the whole season now and I would have thought he or Quin or the rest of the team would have clued into it by this point. I remember a few games ago Boler was showing some stats of Bogey’s numbers in the first half and the second half and said something like “he’s more of a first half scorer.” Wanted to reach through the TV “you’re watching the ****ing games, right? He’s not allowed to touch the ball down the stretch.” I think the first Milwaukee game is a good example: he was dominating that game but he knew the final play was going to Donovan so he said “no, put me on the other side of the floor and give me the ****ing ball.”
This is getting insane, though. Last year our offensively ****** team averages 26 assists per game. We’re now nearly a quarter of the way through the season and we’re averaging 21 assists per game. All of us envisioned these hypotheticals of how the ball would be shooting around the floor, but instead we somehow ended up with a much more iso-heavy offense. Another problem I’m seeing is that we’ve also stopped going to Gobert. One issue is that Conley and Mitchell keep forcing **** and know they’re shooting a crap percentage for the game, so when they finally drive the lane and have a wide open Gobert for the lob, they instead settle for their own decent shot because they know they need to pad the percentage. It’s awful.
But I think we’re still stuck in the idea that Bogey is a decent guy and was just thrust into a #1 role. For instance, I assumed he’d drop to 16 ppg with better options, and I don’t think anyone thought he’d score more than he did last year. The problem is the fan base has caught up to realizing that’s not true, but the team is acting like he’s still a 16 ppg guy.
NAOS
Well-Known Member
I said Bojan would score as much or more.
A lot of what you say here is spot on. We shouldn’t be seeing these dynamics 20 games into the season. It’s infuriating.
Bojan needs to touch the ball more in 4th. We won in mini cuz he did. How many big shots did he make in 4th q? I can think of several.
Give him the ball
Sent from my SM-G977N using JazzFanz mobile app
Give him the ball
Sent from my SM-G977N using JazzFanz mobile app
homeytennis
Well-Known Member
This from KSL:
"The game featured ill-advised shots by Donovan Mitchell and Emmanuel Mudiay. There were defensive lapses inside and communication issues guarding the pick and roll. There was the poor shooting on open looks and Utah struggled to close out quarters. The Jazz had some bad box-outs that resulted in extra Indiana possessions and threw in 16 turnovers, too.
It was a smorgasbord of all the things the Jazz (11-7) have done poorly in the first month of the season. The problem was they all happened in one game. So, the result may not have been too shocking — especially against a team that Utah has struggled against in recent years." How are you gonna fix it coach?
"The game featured ill-advised shots by Donovan Mitchell and Emmanuel Mudiay. There were defensive lapses inside and communication issues guarding the pick and roll. There was the poor shooting on open looks and Utah struggled to close out quarters. The Jazz had some bad box-outs that resulted in extra Indiana possessions and threw in 16 turnovers, too.
It was a smorgasbord of all the things the Jazz (11-7) have done poorly in the first month of the season. The problem was they all happened in one game. So, the result may not have been too shocking — especially against a team that Utah has struggled against in recent years." How are you gonna fix it coach?
SoUjazzfan
Well-Known Member
Let me clarify my point for you Latin Jazz. It's not that I am comparing Conley to Mack, it's that I'm pointing out that he was getting abused last night and was adding nothing on offense. Look at the point in the fourth when he reentered. He got beat every trip on defense but for whatever reason Coach left him in. Shades of Mack. We had better options on this particular night for a better matchup but not wanting to hurt feelings they threw what little chance we had of winning the game away.
His per 36 last night was 24 rebounds and 24 assists.....
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Exum? So we should start him then? Play him more? Do we want our PGs to rebound and assist while being liabilities on offense? What’s your point?
Mine was that on nights when Mudiay and Conley are building houses, maybe try to give Exum more than 3 mins. But let’s also not go crazy here, Exum is at best, a 2nd string PG. He sucks at basketball. His ballhandling is poor and shot is awful. Those are pretty important skills, some might even say, vital skills to have as a guard.
jumpin bean
Well-Known Member
Put Mitchell at point with Exum at 2 Conley runs bench when we face teams with 2 guards that are tall
can't get the ball if Mitchell always wants it.
Release the Kraken
Well-Known Member
Finally saw the game after arriving in SLC to visit my parents for Thanksgiving. My takeaways: Conley is extremely quick and only gets beat with screen action whereby he's switched off and somebody else should've picked up his man. Alternately, Brogdan doesn't need screen action to beat either Mudiay or Ingles off the dribble. This is encouraging as I thought somebody said he couldn't stay with Brogdan. Mudiay got torched on D - poor effort on both ends actually. I do wish when Mudiay struggles like this that Exum is given more minutes, cause I thought he looked decent in short minutes. Gobert was often slow to react defensively. Bogey was brilliant as usual. Green's effort is much better I'd say. Overall, I thought it was the most one-sided game I've seen the Jazz play in terms of poor calls against. Really pitiful officiating IMO.
Mostly paying attention to Conley and I really don't think Coach is giving him the best chance to succeed. He looked like a pinball bouncing off screens or slipping behind them (which he does beautifully) on defense because he's so pesky, but alternately, Snyder only seems to run screen action for Mitchell. And yet, Conley is so much better at getting the ball to Gobert where he wants it - particularly above the rim. His alley oop is a thing of beauty - something Rubio could never do - and he could be killing it on the P n' R as well.
Mostly paying attention to Conley and I really don't think Coach is giving him the best chance to succeed. He looked like a pinball bouncing off screens or slipping behind them (which he does beautifully) on defense because he's so pesky, but alternately, Snyder only seems to run screen action for Mitchell. And yet, Conley is so much better at getting the ball to Gobert where he wants it - particularly above the rim. His alley oop is a thing of beauty - something Rubio could never do - and he could be killing it on the P n' R as well.
Some things I've noticed and I would liked to see changed...
- Spida needs to slow down a little bit on offense. Especially in Iso. Sometimes it seems like he only uses one gear and it's full throttle. I'd like to see him take his time, breakdown the D and get to his preferred spot. I think slowing down would help his vision of where teammates are as well. I'd also love to see him use that snatchback more. His jumper out of it is so smooth. He's got a motion to it that he repeats well. That's a tough move for defenses to handle. Either DM gets space for that shot OR defenses have to aggressively contest which is going to result in foul calls or DM blowing by to the rim.
- Royce needs to take the open jumper. I love how unselfish he is on offense. But he's got to realize the situations when another pass is just one too many.
- Bojan has been fantastic. But I think one area he can get better is on drives. He gets called for traveling too often when he catches the ball on the perimeter and has a drive on his mind. He also gets a little too straightline-ish with his drives. It would be great if he had a counter if the drive isn't there. One thing that I think would help with this is if Quin utilized him as a cutter more often. Have him come off a screen and cut to the rim and let the passer find him. Bogey is a GREAT scorer coming off of screens and we haven't taken full advantage of it.
- I think Conley could benefit from being used as a cutter more often as well. We need to design ways to get him some easy buckets at the rim. Could get him going.
- Quin needs to ride the hot hand more. Bogey was hot last game and didn't even attempt a shot in the 4th. Sometimes watching games this season it feels like DM/Bogey/Mike are taking turns on offense like "okay this your quarter, the next one will be mine, that one is yours" other times it feels like the ball is moving and guys are being TOO unselfish. A lot of this is just due to lack of continuity between the three. Haven't even played 20 games together yet. So it's not shocking that it's not yet a well oiled machine. So Quin needs to recognize the hot hand during games and say "Hey let's be sure to stay unselfish, but this guy is on fire okay guys"
- Spida needs to slow down a little bit on offense. Especially in Iso. Sometimes it seems like he only uses one gear and it's full throttle. I'd like to see him take his time, breakdown the D and get to his preferred spot. I think slowing down would help his vision of where teammates are as well. I'd also love to see him use that snatchback more. His jumper out of it is so smooth. He's got a motion to it that he repeats well. That's a tough move for defenses to handle. Either DM gets space for that shot OR defenses have to aggressively contest which is going to result in foul calls or DM blowing by to the rim.
- Royce needs to take the open jumper. I love how unselfish he is on offense. But he's got to realize the situations when another pass is just one too many.
- Bojan has been fantastic. But I think one area he can get better is on drives. He gets called for traveling too often when he catches the ball on the perimeter and has a drive on his mind. He also gets a little too straightline-ish with his drives. It would be great if he had a counter if the drive isn't there. One thing that I think would help with this is if Quin utilized him as a cutter more often. Have him come off a screen and cut to the rim and let the passer find him. Bogey is a GREAT scorer coming off of screens and we haven't taken full advantage of it.
- I think Conley could benefit from being used as a cutter more often as well. We need to design ways to get him some easy buckets at the rim. Could get him going.
- Quin needs to ride the hot hand more. Bogey was hot last game and didn't even attempt a shot in the 4th. Sometimes watching games this season it feels like DM/Bogey/Mike are taking turns on offense like "okay this your quarter, the next one will be mine, that one is yours" other times it feels like the ball is moving and guys are being TOO unselfish. A lot of this is just due to lack of continuity between the three. Haven't even played 20 games together yet. So it's not shocking that it's not yet a well oiled machine. So Quin needs to recognize the hot hand during games and say "Hey let's be sure to stay unselfish, but this guy is on fire okay guys"
Release the Kraken
Well-Known Member
^I couldn't argue with any of this and I love what you say about the hot hand - if only Snyder read these posts.
Dali
Well-Known Member
Your whole post is pretty damn great, but I wanted to emphasize these two points of yours again. Royce cannot and must not hesitate to shoot, especially come playoff time when open shots could be at a premium.
The second point I agree with wholeheartedly as well, especially since it's Bojan we're talking about. If Royce has hit a bunch of shots in a row, you obviously don't give it to him to make the play, unless it's a catch and shoot open shot, but it's Bojan. He's our assassin and somebody you can give the ball to, to make a play in crunch time off the dribble. Not getting him a shot in the last quarter, and saying but yeah we ran plays for him that didn't eventuate, isn't acceptable.
Eventuate. Great word.
Thriller,
really.
Nobody would guess "humor" in you.
It's like you're a pitcher who has one pitch, an underhand lob at that..... and then you throw a 98 mph curve.
mercy.