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john stockton speaks out against the covid policies

Maybe I'll chime in later if there's time, or maybe not, but one important thing is that herd immunity has been significantly misunderstood, and it's commonly conflated with eradication. Herd immunity means that the number of new infections is stable. Obviously that's a very simplistic statement, but more to emphasize that it does not at all mean eradication. There have only been two infectious diseases ever that have been eradicated. But as herd immunity has been a popular subject in this context, most people are synonymizing the idea with eradication, and so when we continue having it reinforced how important herd immunity will be, what society at large is continuing to falsely reinforce to themselves is that we're chasing eradication, of which that belief won't be helpful. This is a respiratory infection. It will be endemic, like all other respiratory infections.
 
One Brow said:
She has never said it was Jewish people. What she says about space lasers is silly and stupid enough, no need to embellish it.


o_O
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Generally speaking, she invoked the Rothschilds, who are typical targets of anti-semites in situations like this, so that is where the "jewish" piece came from, inferred and oversimplified in the media and subsequent tweet-heads who wanted maximum impact of her statement, which can only be obtained in this day and age by tying it to race or sexual orientation.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
Again, the % of population that must have antibodies for herd immunity is based on how contagious the virus is. Even with the vaccine, we still have 149 chickenpox related deaths in the U.S., but we are considered to have herd immunity. It is unclear if we can get to herd immunity with Covid-19. My guess is without a vaccine, it would take years with the way the virus is mutating (which contrary to alarming articles, the medical community expected it). This is another reason to distance, wear masks and be safe. A virus cannot mutate if it does not spread. The more it spreads, the more it mutates.

Since children are less susceptible to complications with chickenpox, we have all heard of the chickenpox parties to get it out of the way. Still, many adults have never had it, but since most of us have, the odds of adults getting it (even before the vaccine) through a community spread were very low. Since chicken pox is highly contagious, it takes most of us having had it to achieve herd immunity. 95% of the population has either had Chickenpox or the vaccine.

One of the problems with herd immunity, is you have to account for pockets of people that generally don't get exposed, either to being remote, or just the way they receive information and act socially. Even with general herd immunity, these pockets of people are still susceptible to an outbreak, even though the community at large is not.

Again, herd immunity does not mean eradication of disease, it just removes a high likelihood of uncontrolled community spread.
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I agree with all that, except that pre-vaccine, many of the adults who never contracted the disease had likely been immune from childhood exposure that had never manifested. It would be unusual for them never to be in the presence of infected children.

Again, "everybody gets it" is not herd immunity.
 
One Brow said:
I agree with all that, except that pre-vaccine, many of the adults who never contracted the disease had likely been immune from childhood exposure that had never manifested. It would be unusual for them never to be in the presence of infected children.

Again, "everybody gets it" is not herd immunity.
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There are still deaths from chicken pox every year from adults that never got it. The odds of spread are low. The current vaccination rate among children is the U.S. is 85%-94% (varies by state). Even with the 6-15% of unvaccinated children, we aren't seeing community spread. Prior to the vaccine, we did not have uncontrolled spread, even though many adults never had it.

You also have to keep in mind that the chickenpox vaccine does not provide 100% protection, it is actually closer to 85-90%. People that still get it generally have a mild case.

The CDC estimates that close to 5% of the U.S. adult population never had the vaccine or the chickenpox virus. Feel free to question their numbers, but that is the data that is out there.
 
One Brow said:
Yes, I was, and wrongly so. Thank you for the correction.

OK.

In that particular paper, the only reference to the 1930s is to a paper by Hedrichs, who said that epidemics in Baltimore seemed to be halted when the infection rate climbed above 53%.

Also, looking at Figure 1 of that paper, I'm puzzled as to why the 1930s would be singled out as having had herd immunity, as opposed to say 1922 or 1945. It looks like a pretty random pattern of rising and falling to me, although of course I don't know the details.
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Thanks, good questions and I don’t have answers. I always enjoy discussions with you.


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TheGoldStandard said:
There are still deaths from chicken pox every year from adults that never got it. The odds of spread are low. The current vaccination rate among children is the U.S. is 85%-94% (varies by state). Even with the 6-15% of unvaccinated children, we aren't seeing community spread. Prior to the vaccine, we did not have uncontrolled spread, even though many adults never had it.

You also have to keep in mind that the chickenpox vaccine does not provide 100% protection, it is actually closer to 85-90%. People that still get it generally have a mild case.

The CDC estimates that close to 5% of the U.S. adult population never had the vaccine or the chickenpox virus. Feel free to question their numbers, but that is the data that is out there.
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I don't question any of that; it corresponds to my understanding, with the exception of "Prior to the vaccine, we did not have uncontrolled spread, even though many adults never had it." Prior to the vaccine, all we had was uncontrolled spread.
 
One Brow said:
She has never said it was Jewish people. What she says about space lasers is silly and stupid enough, no need to embellish it.


o_O
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It’s not embellished. When people invent conspiracies about the Rothschild family it means something very specific and very anti Semitic. Gotta know the context.







Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz
 
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On thing I'll reiterate to every one is to get the vaccine. If you have seen the number of patients that have ongoing issues related to Covid, I think the population in general would take it more serious. Stroke risk, lung damage, etc.

Edit: We now have more people with at least once vaccine in the U.S. than those that have contracted the virus. Still a long way to go, but progress, even if it isn't as fast as many would like...
 
TheGoldStandard said:
On thing I'll reiterate to every one is to get the vaccine. If you have seen the number of patients that have ongoing issues related to Covid, I think the population in general would take it more serious. Stroke risk, lung damage, etc.
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A woman who is in my wife's bookclub just recently had her husband die from covid. He was in the hospital for a few weeks and on a ventilator. He was only 55 years old. (He was overweight and diabetic)

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fishonjazz said:
A woman who is in my wife's bookclub just recently had her husband die from covid. He was in the hospital for a few weeks and on a ventilator. He was only 55 years old. (He was overweight and diabetic)

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My former work partner who is very healthy spent time in the hospital due to breathing issues.

My wife had two patients that had Covid related strokes. One will likely never walk again, and the other is aphasic. There are lots of other issues that can occur beyond the death rate. Even healthy people can be affected.
 
One Brow said:
I don't question any of that; it corresponds to my understanding, with the exception of "Prior to the vaccine, we did not have uncontrolled spread, even though many adults never had it." Prior to the vaccine, all we had was uncontrolled spread.
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It was uncontrolled, in the simple basic sense that it wasn't controlled. Doesn't mean it was running rampant through the population like a slasher in a horror movie.
 
It did not spread easy and it not deadly if not co-mortality. If it spread easy we the whole world get infected.

2020 report of other illness data show real pictures. I wait for this report.
 
gandalfe said:
It was uncontrolled, in the simple basic sense that it wasn't controlled. Doesn't mean it was running rampant through the population like a slasher in a horror movie.
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I agree. It was not running through the population, just through the uninfected.
 
One Brow said:
You seem to be confusing "herd" and "personal" here. That why such parties were performed every few years.



Every shot I have received recently, or that my kids had, came with a sheet or two of paper, including such disclosures.


The existence of the NVIC does not stop you from suing in other courts. It's just easier for the patient to win in the NVIC.


They are actually doing this with the covid19 vaccine, and did this previously with the currently more established vaccines.
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Your undeviating confidence in Establishment authority belies the fundamental problem of human nature, that "authority" is a sort of pack mentality where mightmakesright, them's that's got the gold make the rules, and most people are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Even your advocacy of racial issues is something most racial minorities (ormajorities) reject because those issues are directed at reinforcing authoritarian manipulations and controls over giveing anyone actual human rights.

Of course you sneer at any reference to Marx as having anything to do with today's politics, like every activist trained in political advocacy will do. But the whole idea of exploiting differences between people for political advantage was something he approved, as did many political manipulators across the ages before.

If you reject all claimed distinctions, and work from the idea that people are equal under the law, entitled to their problems and their opportunities, they are useless to the politicians.

So my thesis here is that scientists have also fallen under the sway of politics, as well as all authorit5arian institutions. When anyone in a discussion that degrades actual human rights of choice, like whether to get vaccinated or whether to have a party instead..... or whether to try any supposed remedy or not, or whether to just go lay down in the LA river and shoot yourself with fentanil, or get raped instead, the fundamental issue is not human welfare but Establishment Control.

Being willing to tear apart some half-wit's lame comments and tell the wold such idiots should have no right to speak just isn't going to do anything for the stupid people. And all it does for the Authorities is build a beautiful wall around the Estabnlishment Mansion.

I'm really tired of authoritarian science the way you cook it. Science is not something that validates Establishment, it is the right to question it.
 
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