Kris Dunn

[KqWIN]

Examples are important and RJ is a clear example of a guy coming in that is a "non-key" guy to start the season that becomes a key player. If they don't add Batum or Jackson we win that series no sweat. I don't know that before the season you would look at the clippers roster and say "Batum and RJ are key guys to where this team ends up in the post season". Which is likely to be the case if we brought Dunn in. I'm more irked that I give an example and you do "well actually that's not a good example" and it clearly is... then we go to "well examples don't matter". Okay.

You just don't like Dunn which is fine. You maybe should just start with I don't like Dunn... but its weird to go "meh" on Dunn while singing the praises of Kyle Anderson... you know they are approximately the same type of shooters right? Going from Bogey to Anderson is a huge, huge downgrade in shooting that will be felt for sure. If Mike and Don are so bad on defense will it really matter that he gets 30 minutes while Dunn would only get 15 maybe? If Quin is not going to play non-shooters like Dunn 15 minutes a game to spell Joe/Mike/Royce/DM... is he really gonna be excited about Anderson's iffy shooting in his "key" lineups. Dunn and Anderson are different defenders for sure but they both do similar things we need help with.

The money matters but if Ryan is presented with a sure opportunity to piss $7-8M down the drain with Hughes or place a $20M bet with a much higher potential to get an on court return then he might be persuaded.

I still don't think it's a great example, especially because he already played a role for them the year prior. The main difference I see is that as a player, I believe RJ is more established than Dunn. So even if there wasn't PT for him (there was), I think of them as different players. If we had kept Niang and brought in Gay, it doesn't change my belief that Niang is a rotation player. My opinion of Niang is completely independent of whether or not we have Rudy Gay...but his minutes are not. Likewise my opinion of RJ is independent of whether they brought in Kennard or not.

I've also never had this "we have enough" attitude that you seem to have a problem with. I've acknowledged that it's probably tough from a money standpoint, but I do not care about the money. I have said that I don't like Dunn so many times. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, but I guess I have to do it more : ) I get the appeal. I really wanted him last year. But with his injury, seeing how defense is evolving, and tight roster spot situation....I've gotten lower on him.

Independent of money I'd rather give the spot to a younger guy and put in one more lottery ticket to find the next Mann. That's why I'd personally pass on Dunn. It's not because we have enough, it's not because of the money, it's because I have more belief in the young players. The roster spot really comes down to Oni/Brantley (I actually think Brantley > Oni), but I will admit that my optimism on Butler/Forrest is also a factor here. I want to see them get time. I know you didn't want to block Doke from minutes, that's a factor for me here too. I don't see Dunn as a true alternative to JC where they would actually be competing for minutes. I think he would only get minutes if there was injury...and if that comes around I'd want to see Butler/Forrest get that chance.

I'm very high on Anderson and don't see him in the same tier as Dunn. They aren't close as shooters and definitely not as total offensive players. I'd be a little skeptical of Anderson's shooting as well, it is a big drop off from Bogey. Shooting is so important and that's why I was high on a certain backup PF lol. But Anderson is still a good offensive players in the other areas. He's a great passer, good ball handler, solid around the basket, great in the mid range. I honestly think he had one of the most underrated seasons in the league last year and I think he could get even better playing around our spacing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I still don't think it's a great example, especially because he already played a role for them the year prior. The main difference I see is that as a player, I believe RJ is more established than Dunn. So even if there wasn't PT for him (there was), I think of them as different players. If we had kept Niang and brought in Gay, it doesn't change my belief that Niang is a rotation player. My opinion of Niang is completely independent of whether or not we have Rudy Gay...but his minutes are not. Likewise my opinion of RJ is independent of whether they brought in Kennard or not.

I've also never had this "we have enough" attitude that you seem to have a problem with. I've acknowledged that it's probably tough from a money standpoint, but I do not care about the money. I have said that I don't like Dunn so many times. I don't know how many times I have to repeat it, but I guess I have to do it more : ) I get the appeal. I really wanted him last year. But with his injury, seeing how defense is evolving, and tight roster spot situation....I've gotten lower on him.

Independent of money I'd rather give the spot to a younger guy and put in one more lottery ticket to find the next Mann. That's why I'd personally pass on Dunn. It's not because we have enough, it's not because of the money, it's because I have more belief in the young players. The roster spot really comes down to Oni/Brantley (I actually think Brantley > Oni), but I will admit that my optimism on Butler/Forrest is also a factor here. I want to see them get time. I know you didn't want to block Doke from minutes, that's a factor for me here too. I don't see Dunn as a true alternative to JC where they would actually be competing for minutes. I think he would only get minutes if there was injury...and if that comes around I'd want to see Butler/Forrest get that chance.

I'm very high on Anderson and don't see him in the same tier as Dunn. They aren't close as shooters and definitely not as total offensive players. I'd be a little skeptical of Anderson's shooting as well, it is a big drop off from Bogey. Shooting is so important and that's why I was high on a certain backup PF lol. But Anderson is still a good offensive players in the other areas. He's a great passer, good ball handler, solid around the basket, great in the mid range. I honestly think he had one of the most underrated seasons in the league last year and I think he could get even better playing around our spacing.

Okay... so one player that has shot a career 30.5% on 3 pointers on extremely low volume is not close to a guy that has shot a career 33.5% on 3s over an extremely low volume... you are right Anderson is a flame thrower. They have the same free throw percentage.

Dunn is a good passer too... he's a good ball handler too... he has a way higher assist numbers in part because he plays point guard a lot... but why is that the differentiator for Anderson? Anderson is better than Dunn but the reasons you mention aren't great cases as differentiators. Kyle had a great year... he is just as likely to return to 30% 3 point shooting as he is to shooting 36% again imo. If more of Dunn's attempts came off catch and shoot they might very well be identical. The biggest differentiator is health and position... but those are the reasons one of them isn't gettable and the other you would likely get a small asset to take on.

We can go dumpster diving for the next Mann but that is something that has a much higher likelihood of panning out at or during the draft. Oni, Morgan, Brantley, Hughes won't be that guy... getting a flier on a young guy is a MUCH better proposition with talent that is drafted 31-45 in the second round... right now all that is available are unsigned undrafted guys and guys that get cut in other situations. That talent pool is more limited than it was a month ago... good luck.

 

[KqWIN]

Okay... so one player that has shot a career 30.5% on 3 pointers on extremely low volume is not close to a guy that has shot a career 33.5% on 3s over an extremely low volume... you are right Anderson is a flame thrower. They have the same free throw percentage.

Dunn is a good passer too... he's a good ball handler too... he has a way higher assist numbers in part because he plays point guard a lot... but why is that the differentiator for Anderson? Anderson is better than Dunn but the reasons you mention aren't great cases as differentiators. Kyle had a great year... he is just as likely to return to 30% 3 point shooting as he is to shooting 36% again imo. If more of Dunn's attempts came off catch and shoot they might very well be identical. The biggest differentiator is health and position... but those are the reasons one of them isn't gettable and the other you would likely get a small asset to take on.

We can go dumpster diving for the next Mann but that is something that has a much higher likelihood of panning out at or during the draft. Oni, Morgan, Brantley, Hughes won't be that guy... getting a flier on a young guy is a MUCH better proposition with talent that is drafted 31-45 in the second round... right now all that is available are unsigned undrafted guys and guys that get cut in other situations. That talent pool is more limited than it was a month ago... good luck.

You don't need to tell me about small sample size shooting and regressing to the mean. I didn't forget the Shaq Harrison discussions lol.

Anderson did have a great year and compared to Dunn he was a flamethrower last year. 36% on 5 attempts per36 is really solid. It might fall off, but I feel good about his shot because of his volume and also the fact that he's been really good from mid range. It always felt like a confidence issue with him because his touch was always really good.

Even if his jumper falls off, I feel really good about his ability to attack closeouts because he's good as a scorer/passer once he puts the ball on the floor. He really excels when the defense is in rotation. Even though Royce is probably a better shooter, I kicking the ball to Anderson because he's so good at making plays against a scrambling defense. Besides being 6'9 he's just a much different offensive player than Dunn. Dunn is used to having the ball in his hands a lot, Anderson is much more of a wing who excels in the flow of an offense.

Look...I don't think it's terrible if we go after Dunn (again, not my money). I feel pretty good about our young PGs. If we decided to go after Dunn, no big deal. I kinda wish we would have just rolled with Paschall+Doke as C's, but it doesn't really bother me that we signed Whiteside. Dunn isn't a terrible bet, but if you want to dump a young player...I do like Stanley Johnson a little better. Equally as awful offensively as Dunn, but I prefer his defensive size and he wouldn't get in the way of Butler/Forrest. I won't lose sleep if they choose Dunn, Johnson, or do nothing. Doing nothing is a bet on the young players and I think that's just fine.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You don't need to tell me about small sample size shooting and regressing to the mean. I didn't forget the Shaq Harrison discussions lol.

Anderson did have a great year and compared to Dunn he was a flamethrower last year. 36% on 5 attempts per36 is really solid. It might fall off, but I feel good about his shot because of his volume and also the fact that he's been really good from mid range. It always felt like a confidence issue with him because his touch was always really good.

Even if his jumper falls off, I feel really good about his ability to attack closeouts because he's good as a scorer/passer once he puts the ball on the floor. He really excels when the defense is in rotation. Even though Royce is probably a better shooter, I kicking the ball to Anderson because he's so good at making plays against a scrambling defense. Besides being 6'9 he's just a much different offensive player than Dunn. Dunn is used to having the ball in his hands a lot, Anderson is much more of a wing who excels in the flow of an offense.

Look...I don't think it's terrible if we go after Dunn (again, not my money). I feel pretty good about our young PGs. If we decided to go after Dunn, no big deal. I kinda wish we would have just rolled with Paschall+Doke as C's, but it doesn't really bother me that we signed Whiteside. Dunn isn't a terrible bet, but if you want to dump a young player...I do like Stanley Johnson a little better. Equally as awful offensively as Dunn, but I prefer his defensive size and he wouldn't get in the way of Butler/Forrest. I won't lose sleep if they choose Dunn, Johnson, or do nothing. Doing nothing is a bet on the young players and I think that's just fine.

Anderson had a breakout year shooting but I doubt he gets to 36% this year... he also had his breakout year in his age 27 season... man what if we had added that guy last year before his breakout age 27 season... where he went from a career 31% shooter to a 36% shooter... there is no way old man Kris Dunn could duplicate that at the ripe old age of (checks google) age 27.

Look I would not predict it but Anderson's breakout likely has to do with shooting spot up threes working off of guys that kick the ball out to him and a coach that told him to shoot it. A much smaller percentage of Dunn's threes are assisted... so we don't know if he could hit some off ball. I would not bet on it... but his defense is borderline all-defense level. Stanley ain't there at all and we have guys to check the bigger wings... we need a guy that does what Dunn has already done and has established very clearly as a skill... even if its just for 10 minutes a night.

And then the bolded portion I love... in one post you do the "I've also never had this "we have enough" attitude that you seem to have a problem with." and then you literally say "do nothing... we are fine". I wonder where I came up with your "we have enough" attitude... lolz.

 

[KqWIN]

Anderson had a breakout year shooting but I doubt he gets to 36% this year... he also had his breakout year in his age 27 season... man what if we had added that guy last year before his breakout age 27 season... where he went from a career 31% shooter to a 36% shooter... there is no way old man Kris Dunn could duplicate that at the ripe old age of (checks google) age 27.

Look I would not predict it but Anderson's breakout likely has to do with shooting spot up threes working off of guys that kick the ball out to him and a coach that told him to shoot it. A much smaller percentage of Dunn's threes are assisted... so we don't know if he could hit some off ball. I would not bet on it... but his defense is borderline all-defense level. Stanley ain't there at all and we have guys to check the bigger wings... we need a guy that does what Dunn has already done and has established very clearly as a skill... even if its just for 10 minutes a night.

And then the bolded portion I love... in one post you do the "I've also never had this "we have enough" attitude that you seem to have a problem with." and then you literally say "do nothing... we are fine". I wonder where I came up with your "we have enough" attitude... lolz.

OK, you got me. You know what I meant. If we don't sign a different player, it's also actively taking a bet on the young players. I believe in Butler/Forrest and would like to give them the best chance to succeed. Signing Dunn would impede their progress. If that's what you have a problem with, I'm guilty. I just felt the same way about those guys as you felt about Doke.

Anderson's 3 point shooting is an outlier, but he did do it. I wouldn't believe he would be a solid 3 point shooter unless he did. If Dunn had a good shooting season on that volume I might believe it too, but he would need to do it first. Anderson has also been really great from mid range too. His assisted amount of 3's is higher than Dunn's, but also fairly low compared to other wings which is another reason why I have confidence in his shot. What if instead of 86% of 3's being assisted it was 98% like Royce?

Needless to say I'm very confident in Anderson and I think his type of defense is more important and his position is more crucial to our success.

 

[NAOS]

Lmao

 

[NAOS]

OK, you got me. You know what I meant. If we don't sign a different player, it's also actively taking a bet on the young players. I believe in Butler/Forrest and would like to give them the best chance to succeed. Signing Dunn would impede their progress. If that's what you have a problem with, I'm guilty. I just felt the same way about those guys as you felt about Doke.

Anderson's 3 point shooting is an outlier, but he did do it. I wouldn't believe he would be a solid 3 point shooter unless he did. If Dunn had a good shooting season on that volume I might believe it too, but he would need to do it first. Anderson has also been really great from mid range too. His assisted amount of 3's is higher than Dunn's, but also fairly low compared to other wings which is another reason why I have confidence in his shot. What if instead of 86% of 3's being assisted it was 98% like Royce?

Needless to say I'm very confident in Anderson and I think his type of defense is more important and his position is more crucial to our success.

I was curious about Forrest, too... and interested in creating a lane for him to have an impact. But he is tucked away into a two-way slot, so that’s that.

I’m also curious about Butler as a defender. But the dude has obvi proven nothing and is at the bottom of the hill right now in terms of conditioning.

 

[infection]

So…

I think if we’re going to make a move, this may actually be one of the few moves that has a chance of happening. A number of issues have to align, which do in this situation:

- We have nothing to offer besides salary relief (TPE).
- After turning TT into smaller contracts, and with signing Schröder, Dunn’s salary is best moved and they’re reportedly looking at that.
- We need a perimeter defender, but have limited resources to find one.
- Other potential targets are going to be valued much higher by their teams.
- There’s nobody on the scrap heap that we feel comfortable enough with that we’ve pursued (free agency).
- If we’re looking to move for a perimeter defender, with the minutes we have available it only makes sense if they’re really good at defense, rather than bringing in someone at the end of the bench who’s “kinda okay.”

tl;dr if there’s a move, I’d anticipate Dunn being a much higher likelihood candidate than anyone else we’ve discussed.

 

[infection]

I was curious about Forrest, too... and interested in creating a lane for him to have an impact. But he is tucked away into a two-way slot, so that’s that.

I’m also curious about Butler as a defender. But the dude has obvi proven nothing and is at the bottom of the hill right now in terms of conditioning.

Butler becomes Neto (a solid and needed role that we’ve missed since we let him go) and Dunn is a utility player. If Quin actually tried to run him as a rotation PG I may vomit.

 

[KqWIN]

I was curious about Forrest, too... and interested in creating a lane for him to have an impact. But he is tucked away into a two-way slot, so that’s that.

I’m also curious about Butler as a defender. But the dude has obvi proven nothing and is at the bottom of the hill right now in terms of conditioning.

I really like Butler. It sucks that he's been on ice this summer, but he was the best guard in all of college basketball last year and has a very translatable NBA game. Two way player as well.

 

[infection]

 

[NAOS]

This is the answer. Right here.

Report: Celtics exploring Kris Dunn, Bruno Fernando trade opportunities

The Celtics are looking to potentially free up some roster spots as Dennis Schroder mulls over his free agency.

www.masslive.com

This is the ultimate buy low that affords you the flexibility of keeping JC. You trade Oni and absorb the rest of salary as TPE. We’re trying to buy high on Smart. Imagine keeping everyone else in tact and adding poor man’s Smart.

That highlight package is ****ing cray