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Lineups w/ Kanter or Booker

Stifle Tower said:
I disagree - for now. Three games is way too small of a sample size, especially given that Kanter is being asked to change his game to fit Quin's system. I would continue to start Kanter for at least 15 games or so. I think it equally important to have a great player off the bench and Booker gives us that.
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It's also super (like extremely important) not have a player that nerfs your entire offense and defense in the starting lineup.
 
silesian said:
Fair points, but Quin has clearly outlined the requirements for playing time, especially effort and focus on the defensive end. If Kanter does not respond ane Quin keeps playing Kanter, what message does this give to the team? It seems that the interim step of starting Kanter and playing Booker more minutes might be a reasonable short-term answer to this conundrum.
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Cy said:
Agree, but I think we will see Booker ending the 1st half and 2nd half of games, so he will essentially be the starter. Kanter will slowly use minutes to Booker until he eventually loses his starting job.
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Agree with both these posts. There are clear guidelines, and Kanter is losing PT as a result of his poor defensive performance. If Booker continues to perform as he has thus far, he'll command more than the ~20 minutes he's getting, and it'll be interesting to see how Quinn allocates the remaining 4/5 minutes between Kanter, Gobert and Novak/Hayward.
 
Kanter will get traded before he loses his starting job.
 
GVC said:
That seems fair.

I just don't think it would set a good precedent in the locker room if the coach is giving up on his first starting lineup after 3 games. Basketball players are human beings, and they respond to trust/confidence and clear expectations/guidelines like anyone else. I don't think you can get away with yanking Kanter from the starting lineup until ~10 games in, but that's just my opinion, and I have absolutely no experience in a competitive team sports locker room.
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That situation can cut both ways too. I agree with your point, and it is likely too soon to bench Kanter. On the other hand, players also know who is and is not performing, who can and cannot perform. They can be hurt by playing/starting a guy who should, just because of his draft position or contract size. I think that Kanter is getting to getting close to the point of proving that he can't do it.
 
GVC said:
I kinda wish the rabid anti-Ty posters would chime in on Booker starting. I assume they recognize that it's both the sensible thing to do AND exactly what they blasted Ty for doing last season.
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Lousy comparison.

For one thing Booker isn't 35 years old and on his 27th team (Jefferson, yes I know it's not 27 but I'm not going to bother to look it up)

He's also not coming off a season in Utah where he completely **** the bed and put up career lows in almost everything (Williams)

Most importantly, Kanter is getting his shot, last year and this year, and he's failing to the point of putting up league worst stats in some measurements. Some folks are ready to move on - maybe pre-mature; but not unwarranted either.
 
candrew said:
Lousy comparison...

He's also not coming off a season in Utah where he completely **** the bed and put up career lows in almost everything (Williams)

Most importantly, Kanter is getting his shot, last year and this year, and he's failing to the point of putting up league worst stats in some measurements. Some folks are ready to move on - maybe pre-mature; but not unwarranted either.
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1. Marvin complemented Favors and the other starters better than Kanter last season.

2. Kanter wasn't ready to take on a larger role, so giving him an opportunity to work out kinks and have some success against bench players makes some sense (last year and this year). We have a decent idea what kind of players Marvin and Booker are, and they don't need to grow into their skills/the NBA game anymore. There's more to player development than minutes.
 
GVC said:
I kinda wish the rabid anti-Ty posters would chime in on Booker starting. I assume they recognize that it's both the sensible thing to do AND exactly what they blasted Ty for doing last season.
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Consider me chimed in and recognized.

Ty may have been right about kanter, while I may have been wrong (I'm wrong alot btw)
Still a little too early to tell though and imo booker looks to be > marvin.

But ya, Corbin is looking good for his moving kanter to the bench so far.

One other thing...... I think even alot of us Corbin haters could see that marvin helped with floor spacing and alot of us (myself included) were in favor of signing marvin to a new, cheap contract.

Jefferson's (richard) role (starting and playing too much) was alot more criticized and perplexing to most of us.
 
Give Kanter 10 games or so in the starting lineup... even though I'd love to see Booker and Blake go at it for 35 minutes tonight. We have to make sure that Kanter and Favors does not work, even if it costs us some ball games. Then we can figure out an alternative plan. Either Kanter moves to the bench to see if that will help or we trade him for whatever we can get. There may be one team who's willing to give up something good (or something okay) for Kanter.
 
Also, remember how awful Alec looked at the beginning of the year last year. Sometimes things click and guys can turn it around.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Give Kanter 10 games or so in the starting lineup... even though I'd love to see Booker and Blake go at it for 35 minutes tonight. We have to make sure that Kanter and Favors does not work, even if it costs us some ball games. Then we can figure out an alternative plan. Either Kanter moves to the bench to see if that will help or we trade him for whatever we can get. There may be one team who's willing to give up something good (or something okay) for Kanter.
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In that case, I think we can give Kanter half the season. We're not going to contend. So let's be 100% CERTAIN Kanter cannot adapt his game. Just look at what QS did with DMC in Atlanta. I don't think ANYONE thought Carroll would break out like he did.

I don't have much hope that Kanter can be the type of 4 the Jazz need, but this is a season of discovery. Better to be sure than see him sign on the cheap somewhere else next season and then have an amazing year.

In either case, Booker still gets 20 mins+ and we have him under contract for next season. It's non-guaranteed, but that's just a formality. Jazz will pick up the contract. Not sure if possible, but maybe they could negotiate a 4-yr deal for him. He's only scheduled to make $5M. Tear up the contract and pay him more next season and then declining over the final three.
 
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fishonjazz said:
Consider me chimed in and recognized.

Ty may have been right about kanter, while I may have been wrong (I'm wrong alot btw)
Still a little too early to tell though and imo booker looks to be > marvin.

But ya, Corbin is looking good for his moving kanter to the bench so far.

One other thing...... I think even alot of us Corbin haters could see that marvin helped with floor spacing and alot of us (myself included) were in favor of signing marvin to a new, cheap contract.

Jefferson's (richard) role (starting and playing too much) was alot more criticized and perplexing to most of us.
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This is how I felt. I liked Marvin and felt he should play. I don't think he should have been pigeonholed as a PF, and I don't think Jefferson should have been getting more than 10-15 minutes a game off of the bench. Jefferson basically told everybody he was not coming back yet still played far too many minutes. Burks is showing that he deserved minutes. He was far better than Jefferson and should have started and played more than him. Furthermore Marvin was better than Jefferson and easily could have moved to SF if needed.
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Kanter may be showing to be less than expected. But that should have been shown previously. We should not be going into his contract year with no idea if he can play against starters, or with the other starters.
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I don't see any defense for the way Corbin handled the team last year. He was not being judged on wins or loses but on development and defensive ability. This team so far has shown more defensive ability and a system that seems to fit them better. How it turns out we will see, but I have hope for this team now. I never had any hope while watching the players run Corbin's "system".
 
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NAOS said:
All dis Kanter hate must be hard on ya, braugh.
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From most, I dn't view it as hate.

I love the kid, but it's obvious he hasn't found his place on the new team yet. He is only getting 19 mpg though. I've always been one who believed that Kanter responds negatively to a short leash. Hopefully his respect for Quin is strong enough to keep him in good spirits as he struggles through this learning curve.
 
LunaticWolf said:
What?

His minutes were doubled and he doubled his production. Shocking.
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I thought for sure we'd resign him. He signed in Atl for cheap too. No idea why we let him get away... He always brought it.
 
LunaticWolf said:
What?

His minutes were doubled and he doubled his production. Shocking.
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I had always heard that when you get an increased role and more minutes that it should be harder to produce because you are playing against starters more and teams game plan for you more too
 
fishonjazz said:
I had always heard that when you get an increased role and more minutes that it should be harder to produce because you are playing against starters more and teams game plan for you more too
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Yes, but I wouldn't call doing that breaking out.
 
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