Longest Thread Ever

[The Midnight]

My point is that there isn't a difference between "something" and "nothing" from a fundamental logic perspective. Zero can be made out of things that aren't zero. What you're saying is some observation about how our existence works (can you magically create things out of nothing??).

Well to me a zero is a subset of nothing.

I have zero money but I have a $1m house. I'm still worth $1m. But if I say I have nothing, it just means I have nothing.

So when I say creating things out of nothing, I really meant nothing.

 

[Archie Moses]

The mind is an amazing thing. I've personally experience lucid dreams. I heard some people can learn to induce such experiences. I believe it. But to believe that someone can travel to places they haven't been or meet other real people in dreams, or whatever... Of course not. Give me real verifiable information, or it's just noise. The equivalent of my email's spam folder. And I never look at that.

I don't believe it either. I believe they experience it only in a dream like state but can't differentiate the experience from reality.

 

[Red]

I don't necessarily believe that personal testimony is worthless. I take individual accounts and see what evidence they are based off of then form a conclusion of whether I believe them, don't believe them or wouldn't doubt it one way or another.

In terms of astral projection, spirit guides, the third eye, I have my own theory of belief on it. If you've ever met someone who's had an out of body experience or has projected before, they are 100% convinced of it. I don't think they are making it up. I do, however, believe there's an scientific answer for it even though we may not understand it fully.

I believe out of body experiences are not truly out of body experiences, but rather brain chemical reactions produced during sleep that causes very real, vivid and concious dreaming in an alter state. I think it's tied in closely with the phenomenon of sleep paralysis. Those who can project at will are able to control this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I think there are many different levels of sleep paralysis and some experience it very differently than others. I had my first episode of sleep paralysis right before I went on my mission. I had no idea what it was or what happened at the time.

Basically, I went to bed and locked my door with a cabin hook latch I had on the door. I don't remember dreaming at all that night. When I woke up I remember feeling pressure on my covers, like something was on me. As I begin to wake up, I suddenly realized there was something all over my bed. My dresser, which was right next to my bed, had each drawer's content emptied on top of my covers and the drawers were placed on the ground all around my bed. I thought it was a prank by my brother's or my step mom was pissed at me for something (I don't hold anything past her,) but again, my door was locked and there was no way for someone to enter my room.

My family gave me **** for it, but thought it was creepy. I had never slept walked in my life and was convinced I hadn't done it. It was something I didn't like to think about and gave me the creeps. At the time, I was religious and believed in demons and the adversary. Now, I'm convinced it was me and it was my first brush in with sleep paralysis.

My second incident with sleep paralysis was when I got home from my mission. I remember waking up in the morning, but I was completely frozen to my bed and I couldn't move. My bed began to heat up like an oven and began to violently shake. I don't know how long I experienced this for, but it scared me so bad I never told anyone for a year because I thought they would think I'm crazy.

A few years later, I started having sleep paralysis all the time, but nothing any more scary than being awake but not being able to move. I learned about sleep paralysis and was relieved there was a scientific answer for these crazy dreams or experiences I had all the time.

A lot of people who get sleep paralysis experience some crazy ****. Many think someone is sitting on their chest or someone is standing above them or in their room. I think people who think they were possessed by the devil or have been abducted by aliens are just experiencing sleep paralysis. I think people who say they astral project experience the same thing and are convinced because the experience is so unbelievably real.

I've learned how to handle sleep paralysis and have probably experienced it 50 times or so in my life. Sometimes, it much more intense than other times. I've learned not to fight it or try and move - that turns very scary real quick. If I'm by myself, I try and relax and fall back asleep. There is one thing I can physically control during an episode and it is my breathing. I can breathe really quick through my teeth and make a weird noise. I've taught my girlfriend to physically shake me and wake my *** up if she hears me doing this while sleeping which she has, many times now. It still freaks her out. Lol

Even though I know what's going on, it still is scary almost every single time for me. Last year, I had my scariest experience of all during an episode of sleep paralysis while on a business trip to Prescott, AZ. Thinking of it still makes my hair on my neck stand.

Probably too long and too much to share. I'm waiting to board a plane in PHX. Anyone else have experiences with sleep paralysis?

Yeah, I "suffered" from it throughout my 20's and 30's. I do agree with some of your observations. It did often involve OBE's, or at least partial separation from body. I would see my ghost arms and legs seperating from my body. I would feel something akin to electromagnetism, only it seemed to be a magnetism affecting a spiritual component, rather then physical. It would feel like I was being sucked out of my body by an electromagnetic force.

I had always had an interest in ufology, and when abduction accounts began to dominate the genre, I became convinced that many such experiences were way too similar to sleep paralysis to be just coincidental. It seemed unmistakable. I do believe there is a connection, though you would have a hard time convincing abductees that that is the case. Most seem to have bought into a ufological narrative to explain their experience. Sleep paralysis was the "old hag" phenomena in Scandinavian culture. I think the interpretation of what sleep paralysis represents may be determined, at least in part, by cultural factors. What was once an old hag sitting on one's chest is an abduction experience these days. That's pretty simplistic on my part, but my first experience of sleep paralysis, as an adult, had me convinced for years that a UFO had been involved, and I kept quiet about it for years. I experienced It first as a young child, though, when I would wake my parents, crying that an elephant was sitting on me. So, in hindsight, it started when I was like 4 or 5 years old, then really slammed me as a young man.

At the same time, in my 20's I became interested in lucid dreaming, in attaining consciousness within a dream. I was somewhat successful at it, but it was tough training myself to wake up 3-4 times a night to record a dream in exhausting detail. So I stopped after about 2 years. But one thing I noticed that drew my attention is that if I woke up in a flying dream, the flying dream seemed to transition into an out of body experience. Or so it seemed.

In general, I hated sleep paralysis. I've often told people that it involves a level of terror that is indescribable. Escaping the grips of it often involved many "false awakenings", where I thought I had awoke, and was free of it, only to discover that nope, I'm still paralyzed, lol. Eventually, I would always break free, and the only way to prevent its return was to sleep on my side. If I tried to go to back to sleep on my back, I would slip right back into it.

Eventually, I stopped being plagued by it. It was always an intermittent problem. I'd experience it 3 or 4 times a week, then nothing for months. Although it still happens, it's very, very rare now.

Here's an interesting read I came across recently:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(18)30138-X/fulltext

And another, for those who may be unfamiliar with Awareness during Sleep Paralysis, although it's fairly common at that...

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/sleep-paralysis/484490/

 

[Archie Moses]

(can you magically create things out of nothing??).

That is one of science's biggest question imo (remove magic though.)

 

[Archie Moses]

Yeah, I "suffered" from it throughout my 20's and 30's. I do agree with some of your observations. It did often involve OBE's, or at least partial separation from body. I would see my ghost arms and legs seperating from my body. I would feel something akin to electromagnetism, only it seemed to be a magnetism affecting a spiritual component, rather then physical. It would feel like I was being sucked out of my body by an electromagnetic force.

I had always had an interest in ufology, and when abduction accounts began to dominate the genre, I became convinced that many such experiences were way too similar to sleep paralysis to be just coincidental. It seemed unmistakable. I do believe there is a connection, though you would have a hard time convincing abductees that that is the case. Most seem to have bought into a ufological narrative to explain their experience. Sleep paralysis was the "old hag" phenomena in Scandinavian culture. I think the interpretation of what sleep paralysis represents may be determined, at least in part, by cultural factors. What was once an old hag sitting on one's chest is an abduction experience these days. That's pretty simplistic on my part, but my first experience of sleep paralysis, as an adult, had me convinced for years that a UFO had been involved, and I kept quiet about it for years. I experienced It first as a young child, though, when I would wake my parents, crying that an elephant was sitting on me. So, in hindsight, it started when I was like 4 or 5 years old, then really slammed me as a young man.

At the same time, in my 20's I became interested in lucid dreaming, in attaining consciousness within a dream. I was somewhat successful at it, but it was tough training myself to wake up 3-4 times a night to record a dream in exhausting detail. So I stopped after about 2 years. But one thing I noticed that drew my attention is that if I woke up in a flying dream, the flying dream seemed to transition into an out of body experience. Or so it seemed.

In general, I hated sleep paralysis. I've often told people that it involves a level of terror that is indescribable. Escaping the grips of it often involved many "false awakenings", where I thought I had awoke, and was free of it, only to discover that nope, I'm still paralyzed, lol. Eventually, I would always break free, and the only way to prevent its return was to sleep on my side. If I tried to go to back to sleep on my back, I would slip right back into it.

Eventually, I stopped being plagued by it. It was always an intermittent problem. I'd experience it 3 or 4 times a week, then nothing for months. Although it still happens, it's very, very rare now.

Here's an interesting read I came across recently:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(18)30138-X/fulltext

And another, for those who may be unfamiliar with Awareness during Sleep Paralysis, although it's fairly common at that...

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/sleep-paralysis/484490/

This was a really good post. Thank you for sharing.

I want to break down a lot of things you said and share some things I've learned or think. I'll do that probably tomorrow.

Before reading your post, I had never heard of the "hag" phenomenon being associated with it. I've read plenty of things, but I usually read something quickly, remind myself that it's just sleep paralysis and has a logical, scientific explanation (I totally believe it too - have my own theories why as well) and try not to think about it. My scariest experience with sleep paralysis involved a witch who came for me in my hotel in Prescott, AZ. I googled sleep paralysis hag and found this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_hag

I had a very vivid and ****ing terrifying experience with the night hag. I never knew it was a thing until tonight and it's pretty crazy. I don't have a great sense of fear, but when I feel it, trust me, it's scary. The night I met the old hag was one of the scariest experiences of my life, even if I know it was just a dream.

If anyone wants to hear the story, let me know. I haven't told many about it because a grown *** man telling a story of a witch entering his hotel room in the middle of the night makes you sound crazy and laughable.


Hehepeepeecaca

 

[The Midnight]

This was a really good post. Thank you for sharing.

I want to break down a lot of things you said and share some things I've learned or think. I'll do that probably tomorrow.

Before reading your post, I had never heard of the "hag" phenomenon being associated with it. I've read plenty of things, but I usually read something quickly, remind myself that it's just sleep paralysis and has a logical, scientific explanation (I totally believe it too - have my own theories why as well) and try not to think about it. My scariest experience with sleep paralysis involved a witch who came for me in my hotel in Prescott, AZ. I googled sleep paralysis hag and found this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_hag

I had a very vivid and ****ing terrifying experience with the night hag. I never knew it was a thing until tonight and it's pretty crazy. I don't have a great sense of fear, but when I feel it, trust me, it's scary. The night I met the old hag was one of the scariest experiences of my life, even if I know it was just a dream.

If anyone wants to hear the story, let me know. I haven't told many about it because a grown *** man telling a story of a witch entering his hotel room in the middle of the night makes you sound crazy and laughable.


Hehepeepeecaca

Yeah I wanna hear about the night hag. Sounds interesting.

 

[Archie Moses]

 

[Archie Moses]

If any of you are familiar with Forrest Fenn and his treasure located somewhere in MT, CO or NM, I've been thinking of doing something similar - but just not nearly as lucrative and Jazz related.

My thoughts are to hide a treasure consisting of some of my Jazz memorabilia e.g. old cards, jerseys, signed plaques, Jazz related items, and maybe some cash somewhere in Utah. I'd write a poem with clues as to where you could find it and make it a challenge. If no one could crack the poem, every month or so I could give new hints or specify a smaller search radius until the cache is found.

I think this would be fun as hell. Searching for Forrest's treasure has been an adventure for me fun and I've learned a ton during research to crack his poem (I have two pretty good solves, but will wait until next year to search.) Who's down?

 

[The Blue Elephant]

Hey, I hope you all doing well, didn't know where else to write this or if anyone cares but I used to be called The Black Swordsman and be on this forum and I cringe at much of the things I wrote on jazzfanz many years ago and hope I didn't offend anyone. That is all.

 

[The Midnight]

Hey, I hope you all doing well, didn't know where else to write this or if anyone cares but I used to be called The Black Swordsman and be on this forum and I cringe at much of the things I wrote on jazzfanz many years ago and hope I didn't offend anyone. That is all.

Yah I remember you bro!! Talk about a blast from the past! How's life?!?!

 

[One Brow]

Hey, I hope you all doing well, didn't know where else to write this or if anyone cares but I used to be called The Black Swordsman and be on this forum and I cringe at much of the things I wrote on jazzfanz many years ago and hope I didn't offend anyone. That is all.

Welcome back.

 

[babe]

just realized what LANA spelled backwards is...


so glad I'm not named Lana

Well.... me too.