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Siro said:
Personal testimony by its nature is evidence-free. Otherwise, you can just look at the evidence, making the testimony irrelevant. As for people believing something... hundreds of millions of religious people are 100% sure that their nonsense is totally true. It doesn't mean anything.

I had a friend who used to tell me all about his experiences "astral projecting". He's really embarrassed about that now, and gets annoyed when I bring it up (probably because I'm really annoying tho). Needless to say, he now thinks its mob-mentality and the power of suggestion.
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I don't disagree with you at all. Maybe I'm not articulating myself to the degree I'd like. 100% of the time I'm going to believe evidence over testimony. What I'm saying is, all personal testimony has a reason of how and why it's achieved - whether it's based on facts, evidence, agendas, wants, perception, etc. I don't believe in astral projection, but I think (I could be completely wrong here) a lot of those who say they've experienced it, have experienced something in a dream like state. I'm also using my own personal experience and testimony of weird **** that happens in my brain when I'm sleeping to support why I think it's related. I'd be the first to say don't trust me, trust what science says.
 
Archie Moses said:
I don't disagree with you at all. Maybe I'm not articulating myself to the degree I'd like. 100% of the time I'm going to believe evidence over testimony. What I'm saying is, all personal testimony has a reason of how and why it's achieved - whether it's based on facts, evidence, agendas, wants, perception, etc. I don't believe in astral projection, but I think (I could be completely wrong here) a lot of those who say they've experienced it, have experienced something in a dream like state. I'm also using my own personal experience and testimony of weird **** that happens in my brain when I'm sleeping to support why I think it's related. I'd be the first to say don't trust me, trust what science says.
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The mind is an amazing thing. I've personally experience lucid dreams. I heard some people can learn to induce such experiences. I believe it. But to believe that someone can travel to places they haven't been or meet other real people in dreams, or whatever... Of course not. Give me real verifiable information, or it's just noise. The equivalent of my email's spam folder. And I never look at that.
 
Siro said:
But say someone claims to astral project, then once challenged, they responds by providing verifiable evidence for the claim. For example, they "project" into where the challenger is, and read something the challenger wrote on a piece of paper. There you have it. No trust in any personal testimony is needed. And still, that wouldn't prove ANYTHING the projector believes about the nature or mechanics of the projection. That would similarly require evaluation.
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OK but how does science explain the fact that because physical matter cannot 'create' itself (i.e., a rock cannot create another rock), then where do all the physical matter originally come from?

Maybe the answer cannot be explained by science?
 
ONE LOVE said:
OK but how does science explain the fact that because physical matter cannot 'create' itself (i.e., a rock cannot create another rock), then where do all the physical matter originally come from?

Maybe the answer cannot be explained by science?
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That's too technical a discussion for me to bother. You simply don't have enough of an understanding of the current state of the art in cosmology. So I don't understand why you feel so confident asking that question. It's not like you studied the various ideas on the origin of reality, and came to the conclusion that some things are unexplainable.
 
Siro said:
That's too technical a discussion for me to bother. You simply don't have enough of an understanding of the current state of the art in cosmology. So I don't understand why you feel so confident asking that question. It's not like you studied the various ideas on the origin of reality, and came to the conclusion that some things are unexplainable.
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?? I'm not confident in asking anything or pretend to know things I don't. I'm just coming from a layman perspective, and pondering really a simple question. Science is always about verifiability and causality right? Then where do all matters come from if it cannot create itself?
 
ONE LOVE said:
?? I'm not confident in asking anything or pretend to know things I don't. I'm just coming from a layman perspective, and it's really a simple question. Science is always about verifiability and causality right? Then where do all matters come from if it cannot create itself?
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I gave you an answer. There are responses to your question within the realm of rational thought. But I'm not motivated to try and explain any of them. If you're serious about what the state of knowledge is on the subject, then you can research it. You'd have a deeper understanding of the meaning of your question, and more nuanced ways to think about and formulate questions about the origin of the universe, if nothing else.
 
Siro said:
I gave you an answer. There are responses to your question within the realm of rational thought. But I'm not motivated to try and explain any of them. If you're serious about what the state of knowledge is on the subject, then you can research it. You'd have a deeper understanding of the meaning of your question, and more nuanced ways to think about and formulate questions about the origin of the universe, if nothing else.
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So just give me a straight answer then, what is Science's answer to the origin of the universe?
 
ONE LOVE said:
So just give me a straight answer then, what is Science's answer to the origin of the universe?
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What part of "I'm not motivated to explain" don't you understand? I don't think you're interested. Why would I expend the considerable effort needed to explain to you even the basics of quantum and relativity theories required to start the discussion? I know it won't matter.
 
Siro said:
What part of "I'm not motivated to explain" don't you understand? I don't think you're interested. Why would I expend the considerable effort needed to explain to you even the basics of quantum and relativity theories required to start the discussion? I know it won't matter.
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Well I was expecting you to just say it's The Big Bang or it's the Multiverse, and then I was gonna say, ok, but who created the Multiverse .
 
ONE LOVE said:
Well I was expecting you to just say it's The Big Bang or it's the Multiverse, and then I was gonna say, ok, but who created the Multiverse .
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WHO created the multiverse? Do you know something I don't?
 
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