Looking for a new team

[Jazz4ever]

If the Jazz have to trade every UFA entering their prime due to unrestricted free agency worries, might as well sell the franchise.

 

[fishonjazz]

[MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION] to be fair the goal was to win and make the playoffs last year. They can play it off but I'm not fooled. Now injuries crippled this team so you can understand. But that has only further magnified this season. DL needs to make some things happen or Hayward is gone and that will be a huge setback for this team if they do not get anything for him. He must (more than a need now) step up in the draft, free agency and/or the trade market this off season.
[MENTION=2931]Jamezz[/MENTION] I had mild interest in the Grizz but not now. Jazz or bust.

Really good post

 

[fishonjazz]

That makes sense, it's interesting that you bring up Gasol. As a spaniard I do follow the players that come from that part of the world, too bad the only one that's ever been on the Jazz didn't pan out.

Lopez? Damn I was excited by him. Thought he was going to be really good.

 

[GVC]

It is sad what low self esteem we as Jazz fans have. A lot of you expect Hayward to leave, without really any signs point to that. If we can not keep our best players then what is the point of trading him for another chance at a good player? He will just walk to when he becomes a UFA right?

So our best hope is to win a championship according to the people who want to trade Hayward for a pick is to get enough talent on rookie contracts or their first contract when they are a RFA to win it all?

Or, you know, try to build a quality team by adding quality players through trade and free agency whenever possible. Players will sign/re-sign with quality teams. If you've proven that you're happy to stay around the minimum salary threshold, never take any risks or add talent, or make any other perceivable efforts to improve the team, players will go elsewhere.

 

[fishonjazz]

Burks and Exum arguably aren't upgrades over the players who played to end this past season (Mack/Neto, Gordo/Hood/Ingles). The West was also surprisingly weak in the middle (after the top 4), which is unlikely to continue this coming season. The Jazz won't crack 50 wins or a top-4 seed without some major talent upgrades. Additional depth won't move the needle very much.

I think Burks is an obvious upgrade in talent to ingles. And I think exum is an obvious upgrade to burke and neto at the least.

Lyles was really looking good. He could make a big difference in his second year.

 

[Jamezz]

Lopez? Damn I was excited by him. Thought he was going to be really good.

Yep, he's retiring at the end of this season. He ended his career back in Spain, in Bilbao.

 

[GVC]

I don't see it this way at all and I think many here would agree.

One additional note: So what?

 

[Jazz4ever]

Or, you know, try to build a quality team by adding quality players through trade and free agency whenever possible. Players will sign/re-sign with quality teams. If you've proven that you're happy to stay around the minimum salary threshold, never take any risks or add talent, or make any other perceivable efforts to improve the team, players will go elsewhere.

Tell Portland that. They won 51 games, only to see Aldridge walk for less money. Tell the Heat that, who won 66 games only to watch Lebron James go back to a city that despised him.

 

[fishonjazz]

If the Jazz have to trade every UFA entering their prime due to unrestricted free agency worries, might as well sell the franchise.

I don't think we will. We will be good soon.
Hood lyles burks exum gobert favors will all want to stay. Favors loves it here and took a discount. Burks is under contract for a while and I think he likes it here. In two years exum, hood, lyles, gobert, burks, and favors all might be much better players than they are now. We will be winning enough in two years for them to want to stay.

We just barely acquired a lot of our guys. They are so young. Gotta give them a few years and some health.

Favors and hayward are the vets and they are both high quality nba players. What happens when we still have hayward and favors (with more experience) and lyles, hood, exum, gobert, and Burks all have a large amount of minutes under their belt to the point that they are young vets instead of only having played as much as rookies and sophmores.

Gobert, hood, exum, and lyles all show lots of potential and have such a low, amount of total minutes played. They are babies in the nba. Even hood and gobert who are a bit older age wise have not played much total nba minutes in their careers.

Hell with burks injuries and constant bench role he really doesn't have all that many minutes either.

The core is still really young despite the fact that favors and hayward seem like old vets apparently.

 

[GVC]

Tell Portland that. They won 51 games, only to see Aldridge walk for less money. Tell the Heat that, who won 66 games only to watch Lebron James go back to a city that despised him.

So...you don't think there's a correlation between team success/organizational reputation and the ability to sign/re-sign quality players?

 

[Shad]

I don't think we will. We will be good soon.
Hood lyles burks exum gobert favors will all want to stay. Favors loves it here and took a discount. Burks is under contract for a while and I think he likes it here. In two years exum, hood, lyles, gobert, burks, and favors all might be much better players than they are now. We will be winning enough in two years for them to want to stay.
Gotta give them a few years and some health.

Here we go again. The "give us 2 more years" discussion that has ALREADY been going on for years. Gordo and Favors could and might be gone "in 2 more years."

 

[Shad]

and GVC is right about Dennis Lindsey. The dudes best acquisition in almost 4-5 years is Shelvin Mack who would only pass the water on a Hawks team LOL

 

[Ron Mexico]

Yikes.

1. The Jazz were tanking the last two seasons? All they ended up with were a couple mid-1st round picks and the loss of a previous #3 pick for nothing.

2. Not afraid to do something? What happened with Al and Millsap in DL's first season? How quickly did the FO move on Kanter after he made a mess of his exit interview in 2014 and reportedly asked for a trade that summer? Why should I expect the FO to do what they couldn't/didn't do the last 4 years?

3. Why don't you see Gordo leaving? Every quality unrestricted free agent the Jazz have had during DL's tenure has walked for nothing. Gordo's smart enough to find an organization that's actually committed to trying to win.

1. Yep we got a couple lottery picks the last 2 years. Our very young players are starting to win, thats a good thing.
2. They traded DWill. Which is not DL but still the organization. They didnt get very good trade offers for Al and Milsap since teams assumed they could get them as FA, since the Jazz were clearly moving on. Maybe they could have traded them earlier but they didnt know what they had in the young players yet. The only offers that seemed to be available for these two were bad contracts and/or veteran players they didnt want when they were trying to rebuild. Yes they messed up with Kanter. They should not have drafted him. After they did draft him they should have traded sooner. But giving up on a young player that soon that was a 3rd pick and going to be RFA in the future is different and difficult to do. They assumed they could make it work. They were wrong but had Gobert never emerged they probably still have Kanter or got more for him in a trade.
3. Hayward likes the team. He will get lot more money here. He seems to like the FO, coaches, and players. He is the top player here and treated as such. Has not indicated he wants to leave anytime soon. We have not lost any key FAs we tried to keep recently.Hayward is smart enough to see next season things coming together. Assuming (which I feel is safe) we make the playoffs as a team that young it will be hard to leave. If we make the playoffs as a 5th seed or higher (which has a good possibility) then we are a top team in the west and a good destination for a great player.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Or, you know, try to build a quality team by adding quality players through trade and free agency whenever possible. Players will sign/re-sign with quality teams. If you've proven that you're happy to stay around the minimum salary threshold, never take any risks or add talent, or make any other perceivable efforts to improve the team, players will go elsewhere.

So drafting well is not adding talent? Players will resign when we are a playoff team, which we will be next year. If you dont think we will make the playoffs next year then I see your point and disagree.

 

[fishonjazz]

Here we go again. The "give us 2 more years" discussion that has ALREADY been going on for years. Gordo and Favors could and might be gone "in 2 more years."

I don't think favors can be.
If you think that exum lyles hood and gobert should be playing like vets and outplaying vets and beating more veteran teams in the playoffs while a bunch of the team are hurt then your expectations are too high.

I think that in 2 years the jazz will have hayward (unless they get something good out of him and that case we would have whatever we got in the trade) favors, burks, exum, lyles, gobert, hood, and the additions we pick up in the next two years. And I think all of our current guys that will be under contract in two years will be better than they are now.

The current team was good enough to make the playoffs if they had an average amount of injuries.

Then you give them a few years experience.... I think this team would be better than portland was this year, better than Indiana, dallas, atlanta, boston, and maybe a few other playoff teams.

I believe we have the talent but it isn't experienced and healthy/lucky enough.

I think this will be one of those fundamental disagreements that will never go anywhere.
Fact is that I simply think the players that the jazz have are better you and gvc and others think. Thats not going to change I don't think no matter what I say to you or what you say to me.

 

[fishonjazz]

So drafting well is not adding talent? Players will resign when we are a playoff team, which we will be next year. If you dont think we will make the playoffs next year then I see your point and disagree.

This.
Jazz acquired draft picks in trades for taking bad contracts, and they tanked. Both ways to add talent that doesn't involve trade or free agency. And they still have future draft picks from teams coming in the next few years (again, a way to add talent)

Now they just need those additions to the team to be healthy and more experienced.

I don't have delusions of thinking the jazz can be true contenders without getting a real star but if you don't have curry lebron durant etc then you arent winning a chip anyway and we know we can't get those guys.

I do think that the current roster plus some filler (via draft, trade or free agency) can have home court advantage in the playoffs in a couple years. If we reach our potential.

 

[Maneesh]

and GVC is right about Dennis Lindsey. The dudes best acquisition in almost 4-5 years is Shelvin Mack who would only pass the water on a Hawks team LOL

DL SUCKS IT!

 

[GVC]

A few responses in edited order (with one earlier quote):

From earlier in the thread:

That season was about developing and evaluating the core/youth players on this team. If we had signed vets we would not know anything about Lyles since he would not have played. We would know less about Hood and all the fans on here would be crying that he didnt get more playing time.

From your previous post:

They didnt get very good trade offers for Al and Milsap since teams assumed they could get them as FA, since the Jazz were clearly moving on. Maybe they could have traded them earlier but they didnt know what they had in the young players yet.

I've seen these particular double-think arguments frequently on this site. You can't have it both ways. Why was it wrong to dump lame-duck vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2012, but right to not add vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2015?

1. Yep we got a couple lottery picks the last 2 years. Our very young players are starting to win, thats a good thing.

You don't 'tank' for a mid-first when you already have a team loaded with middling talent. The Jazz need to add more high-end talent. My preference would be to acquire talent via free agency and trades (as opposed to through tanking). The Jazz have chosen the middle road of neither tanking nor consolidating and adding talent through trade and free agency. It's the worst possible option.

2. They traded DWill. Which is not DL but still the organization.

KOC was a terrific GM. I'm not sure what his record has to do with DL's ability.

3. Hayward likes the team. He will get lot more money here. He seems to like the FO, coaches, and players. He is the top player here and treated as such. Has not indicated he wants to leave anytime soon. We have not lost any key FAs we tried to keep recently.Hayward is smart enough to see next season things coming together. Assuming (which I feel is safe) we make the playoffs as a team that young it will be hard to leave. If we make the playoffs as a 5th seed or higher (which has a good possibility) then we are a top team in the west and a good destination for a great player.

1. The extra money is only in the form of an additional year and slightly higher raises.

2. His opinion of the team/organization/teammates is pure speculation. Players are smart enough to play nice, as doing otherwise generally devalues them. He may be itching to leave, and he's already signed one contract (offer sheet) with another team. We'll have to wait and see (although Frank linking to some of his statements in the OP would be helpful).

3. The 5th seed is the ceiling for this team next season. There may be better teams with cap space next summer.

 

[GVC]

I don't think favors can be.

Favors has two years left on his contract. He'll be an unrestricted free agent in 2018.

 

[GVC]

This.
Jazz acquired draft picks in trades for taking bad contracts, and they tanked.

That represents 1 of the 4 years DL has been at the helm. What has he done the other 3 years?

The current team was good enough to make the playoffs if they had an average amount of injuries.

The current team missed the playoffs, despite playing in an uncharacteristically weak Western Conference.