Millers sell the Jazz

[green]

So wait, the whole trust thing is meaningless and/or pointless then? I don't get the whole thing now.

Here is reality (I went over this when the trust happened):
When Gail dies, the Jazz changes ownership. At that point, a big tax bill is due, like hundreds of millions of dollars. The trust had NOTHING to do with staying in Utah,it was just marketed that way. The trust was 100 PERCENT about trying to avoid that tax bill. Because when that tax bill hit, the Millers would be forced to sell as they don't have that cash.

So, when the trust didn't work out, they sell now, when value is the highest (before Gobert and Mitchell's contracts are signed), pay the tax now and enjoy their profits.

 

[LoPo]

Are you saying that once a person becomes a billionaire, they become LESS interested in making more? LOL. Look no further than the Millers. Three years ago they put the team into some eternal trust. Now, as soon as their other businesses are threatened by the pandemic, they quickly ripped that up and sold the team for cash.

This is such a negative world. Why in the world can't we just trust our new owner to be an avid Jazz fan without having to jump down negative rabbit holes that he's going to sell the team?

 

[Eminence]

I hope so. I hope he's one of us. And I'm excited for him and the franchise.

Thanks for your excitement!

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Are you saying that once a person becomes a billionaire, they become LESS interested in making more? LOL. Look no further than the Millers. Three years ago they put the team into some eternal trust. Now, as soon as their other businesses are threatened by the pandemic, they quickly ripped that up and sold the team for cash.

Yes they sold the team to help preserve their wealth which was being threatened.

what exactly does Ryan want right now that he can’t buy? Does having an extra 2B help him get that? Does he even clear that much or is he just worth more on paper or when he sells the team.

I get that these guys want to build more wealth but they are likely not going to cheat lie and burn bridges to get more if they already have a lot.

Could he move the team? Sure... he lives here... he grew up here... his wife has a big dance studio here... so yeah I don’t think he interested in tearing all that up to make an extra billion on his balance sheet.

Y’all are just assuming he can get some posh arena deal done in Seattle with no problem at all. It’d be a lot of hard work and he’d end up owning a team in a market he doesn’t live in.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Ding, ding, ding...

The trust was a tax shelter and when that didn't work they sold. Spot on about the Miller's. They weren't into the Jazz and with Gobert and Mitchell contracts coming due, the value of the Jazz was just going to fall. This is a good thing.

And worst case scenario? They move the Jazz to Seattle and I can get season tickets. Win/win for me.

Gail wasn't gonna live forever so I think they had an opportunity to get a good local owner and the pandemic had created some financial incentive to do a deal now. Its all those events coming together.. It sounds like he was interested in buying other franchises but held off... he wasn't likely to wait forever.

I think franchise values are more tied to tv rights, arena deals, and attendance than who is on the books for what... that **** can change in an instant. Unless you have Lebron I'm not sure the player personnel stuff matters all that much.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Yes they sold the team to help preserve their wealth which was being threatened.

what exactly does Ryan want right now that he can’t buy? Does having an extra 2B help him get that? Does he even clear that much or is he just worth more on paper or when he sells the team.

I get that these guys want to build more wealth but they are likely not going to cheat lie and burn bridges to get more if they already have a lot.

Could he move the team? Sure... he lives here... he grew up here... his wife has a big dance studio here... so yeah I don’t think he interested in tearing all that up to make an extra billion on his balance sheet.

Y’all are just assuming he can get some posh arena deal done in Seattle with no problem at all. It’d be a lot of hard work and he’d end up owning a team in a market he doesn’t live in.

You’re making a lot of salient points that I mostly agree with, but I think you are pretty dramatically underestimating the baseline or average greed of any billionaire. To amass such wealth in the first place looks like clinical hoarding to me, it’s just that the wealthy dodge any such characterization because of their standing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Las Vegas has yet to be determined as a legit market in any way, and St. Louis smacks me as an absolute non-starter and dud. There is no smoke coming from there and I’ve never even heard it mentioned until today. Might as well add Kansas City to the list since they’ve had a basketball team in living memory. Why not Pittsburgh? Birmingham?

The next move in the NBA is a team headed to Seattle. And if it’s the Jazz that’s fine with me, but I think we’re actually quite safe here.

The NBA would be a lot better off moving the Grizzlies, Pistons, Hornets, Twolves to Seattle. Again they want to create more value for the league overall and those franchises are attracting less $$$$ than SLC (a growing market).

Honestly... if they need a new arena then Utah should get that **** done. Millers have been pretty generous to the state with how they have done business. I think the market would support it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You’re making a lot of salient points that I mostly agree with, but I think you are pretty dramatically underestimating the baseline or average greed of any billionaire. To amass such wealth in the first place looks like clinical hoarding to me, it’s just that the wealthy dodge any such characterization because of their standing.

Yes and no... I think there are many megawealthy folks that give a ton of money away and are quite generous. I think part of the reason to amass wealth is ego... ego and status can be acquired a lot of ways. Ryan can be the toast of the town and hang out with the team and is now a lot more "famous" than he was before.

If you were purely looking at dollars and cents buying a sports franchise at current values is not the easiest way to make a bunch of extra money. There would be lots of other investments with higher potential/yield and you may not have to tie up as much of your wealth to invest in them.

I realize values have gone up like crazy the last 20 years, but that growth is likely not sustainable and has some real threats... so it likely goes up in value but I'm sure there are better opportunities to make money right now.

 

[LogGrad98]

I mean the Knicks are worth like 5B and they have MSG and the biggest market in the US... So moving the Jazz to Vegas makes them worth 3-4B? Seattle maybe if he gets a nice arena in the deal but that is not easy task and there will be teams that would be in line to move before us... The NBA is into creating value to the league as a whole. Moving a team like the Grizzlies to Seattle creates way more value than moving our team there. Homeboy can't just move... it has to be approved by the NBA.

When you have made Billions already extra billions has lower utility. Becoming a villain in your home town doesn't help your legacy... once you get to a certain point legacy matters more than every penny...

So yeah the fact that he played Junior Jazz and is a legit fan of the team ****ing matters. Ballmer will end up spending a ton in luxury tax over the next few years... why? He could win a couple extra games a year or save a few hundred million... obvi he will choose the $$$$ lolz.

There is only one certain truth in the universe. All people want more money. Period. It doesn't matter how much they have now, they always want more. And when they get more, it is never enough.

 

[Beer]

You’re making a lot of salient points that I mostly agree with, but I think you are pretty dramatically underestimating the baseline or average greed of any billionaire. To amass such wealth in the first place looks like clinical hoarding to me, it’s just that the wealthy dodge any such characterization because of their standing.

I can't think of a logical reason to move the Jazz to Seattle or Tampa or Cincinnati or Pittsburgh or wherever. I guess anything is possible but there is no logical reason to do it.

 

[Hornacekamania]

There is only one certain truth in the universe. All people want more money. Period. It doesn't matter how much they have now, they always want more. And when they get more, it is never enough.

And Ballmer has so much money, owing the Clippers is all about ego. I think he wants to buy a title.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Yes and no... I think there are many megawealthy folks that give a ton of money away and are quite generous.

Sorry, had to stop there. Having a billion dollars in wealth is grotesque. Point blank, full stop. It should be the privilege of any person with such fortune to give away enough that they don’t maintain (or grow) such wealth for themselves.

I understand teams are worth billions these days and my criticism of their owners is implicit in the argument. Considering the excess that most people criticize professional sports with, it sits fine with me. Players shouldn’t be making hundreds of millions of dollars, and the only way that is fair is if owners also make less profit and have less wealth. The money that grows the league comes from people, and it is increasingly freezing out people that don’t have (or shouldn’t spend) the money from going to games or even having cable packages necessary to legally watch games. Why does the NBA need more, any of them?

There has to be a point where wealth should be overwhelmingly seen as ****ed up. Just one billion for a person is well-beyond what is even remotely sensible or sensical, especially given the exponentiating plight of the planet and the people that inhabit it, and the subsequent necessity to do something meaningful to address it.

But sure, Bill Gates does good things with his money.