The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
According to you and its a good thing for me that your opinion is wrong
Still only response to this is "Yep, I think Black people are ugly"
Mormon LeBron (Jabari Parker of Simeon HS)
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
According to you and its a good thing for me that your opinion is wrong
Still only response to this is "Yep, I think Black people are ugly"
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
I can't lie, I actually laughed at this.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
As much as I loathe the Black Swordsman as a poster and his constant need to turn almost every single thread into some sort of religious debate, I can't help but notice people aren't in here tripping over themselves to directly address his post in which he references the passage from Nephi that references the mark of Cain. I'm interesed to see the LDS point of view on that passage, because it seems pretty black and white to me (no pun intended).
With that being said, Swordsman, knock it off. Not every thread has to turn into a personal soapbox for you and your personal beliefs. We all get it: You're a muslim, you're convinced it's the right way to live, and you're convinced that everybody else is wrong. Message recieved, loud and clear. Now please, for the love of Allah, shut the hell up.
With that being said, Swordsman, knock it off. Not every thread has to turn into a personal soapbox for you and your personal beliefs. We all get it: You're a muslim, you're convinced it's the right way to live, and you're convinced that everybody else is wrong. Message recieved, loud and clear. Now please, for the love of Allah, shut the hell up.
That passage in the Book of Mormon is talking about one particular group of people at one specific point in time. The people were all Israelites (Nephite vs. Lamanites), with the possible exception that they may have intermarried with any other people that may have lived there. My own opinion is that the darker skin did come from intermarriage with others, and was symbolic of them forgetting the covenants the Lord had made with Israel. At any rate, it has absolutely nothing to do with people of African descent. Blacks in that context simply do not enter into the Book of Mormon at all. And that passage never even mentions Cain or Cain's curse.
That being said, there are certainly 19th and early 20th century LDS who did associate being black with the curse of Cain. As did many other nonLDS individuals of that time period. But as far as I know, they never used that passage from the Book of Mormon to justify it (there was another passage from the Book of Abraham that was used, if I recall correctly).
Chad Feldheimer
Well-Known Member
You mean Brigham Young right?
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.” – JoD: vol.10 p. 110: (March 8, 1863)"
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
"In the evening debated with John C. Bennett and others to show that the Indians have greater cause to complain of the treatment of the whites, than the negroes or sons of Cain."
- Joseph Smith (History of the Church 4:501)
"Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it."
- Brigham Young (Bush & Mauss 1984: 70)
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind …. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the ‘servant of servants’; and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree."
-Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, 7:290)
Curse of Cain is flat nose and black skin that Negroes have according to Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, people that speak directly to god.
- Joseph Smith (History of the Church 4:501)
"Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the Priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spoke it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it."
- Brigham Young (Bush & Mauss 1984: 70)
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind …. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the ‘servant of servants’; and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree."
-Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, 7:290)
Curse of Cain is flat nose and black skin that Negroes have according to Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, people that speak directly to god.
Yes it is. He seems like a good kid and I wish him all the success that he wants.
Sure.
Well, Brigham Young, anyway. I don't see Joseph Smith using that phrase.
So you've established that early LDS leaders were racist. Guess what? So were 99% of the other religious leaders of their time.
It's a good thing, then, that we don't feel like that makes them inerrant.
I guess it's also a good thing no Islamic leaders have ever been racist. Oh, wait...
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
Quote one Islamic Prophet that was racist with sources. Not even a Caliph who isn't given the same regard as a prophet has never said anything racist.
Here is an example of a glorious true prophet Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
“The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr"
sounds like someone speaking directly to god to me.
Owned once again colton.
Here is an example of a glorious true prophet Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)
“The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr"
sounds like someone speaking directly to god to me.
Owned once again colton.
I believe you just owned yourself, dude. Nice.
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The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
I forget some people like you get confused. I owned him.
Hmm...to own me again, you would have had to own me the first time.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Yet you're the most hateful, prejudiced person on this board.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
GVC
Well-Known Member
You're not a person?
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
The problem isn't that Brigham Young was a terrible racist (history has already proven that fact for us), the problem is that he is on record many times stating that his racist beliefs were divine in nature and sanctioned by the almighty.
I've actually always been fascinated by the relationship between modern day mormons and Brigham Young. Probably no single individual is as responsible for saying numerous idiotic things that make so many issues uncomfortable for the LDS church even to this day. Yet, while he was running around saying all of those awful things, he was alledgedly doing so while also being the voice of god for his restored church.
I have to believe that most rational mormons read alot of BY's quotes and just cringe. Just an opinion from an outsider, but it seems like most mormons would rather steer extremely clear of discussing Brigham Young and his ideals when it comes to talking with non-members.