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Name a player that wouldve won Stockton & Malone rings.

Crazy that in the 97-98 season the Jazz were dead last in 3pt attempts per game despite being 5th best at making them. Bryon Russell is one of those dudes who if you put him in the modern era he's probably a drastically more impactful player.
That is very frustrating and maybe even painful to read.
 
By the time jazz reached the finals Stockton was heading down hill fast. Malone carried those teams.
True. I also just noticed how small and… not dynamic he was. Maybe it’s because we’ve been spoiled with ridiculous guard play over the past 20 years. But I really thought his lack of size AND his unselfishness were real detriments. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the NBA game has changed a lot, but I’d say about every 3 possessions Stockton had a good look but would pass it up. Often, his good look was better than the resulting turnover due to Chicago’s length (Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan, Harper, etc). Had he been more selfish or bigger to be able to see over the defense (like Nash or Kidd) maybe it would’ve been enough to put us over the top? Prime Dwill would’ve been real good. He could’ve run our sets while still being a dynamic enough threat to make Chicago pay.

As you said, he was headed down fast. In 97 he averaged 15 pts and 9 assists. By 1998 it was down to 9 pts (22 % from 3) and 9 assists in 32 mins. That’s just not going to get it done. Quite frankly, it’s sort of amazing how little criticism he gets compared to Malone. Malone “struggled” by averaging 25 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 1 block all while shooting 50 % from the field.

To make our PG situation worse, it’s not like we had a guard who could be the “change of pace” guy like Clarkson played last year. Eisley was a pass first undersized guard as well. Just to compare, Conley averaged 9 pts (20 % from 3) and 5 assists in 29 mins in that horrific Dallas series. Similar numbers to Stockton (and we wonder why we suffered an early 1st round exit? Conley was worthless against Dallas).
 
True. I also just noticed how small and… not dynamic he was. Maybe it’s because we’ve been spoiled with ridiculous guard play over the past 20 years. But I really thought his lack of size AND his unselfishness were real detriments. Hindsight is always 20/20 and the NBA game has changed a lot, but I’d say about every 3 possessions Stockton had a good look but would pass it up. Often, his good look was better than the resulting turnover due to Chicago’s length (Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan, Harper, etc). Had he been more selfish or bigger to be able to see over the defense (like Nash or Kidd) maybe it would’ve been enough to put us over the top? Prime Dwill would’ve been real good. He could’ve run our sets while still being a dynamic enough threat to make Chicago pay.

As you said, he was headed down fast. In 97 he averaged 15 pts and 9 assists. By 1998 it was down to 9 pts (22 % from 3) and 9 assists in 32 mins. That’s just not going to get it done. Quite frankly, it’s sort of amazing how little criticism he gets compared to Malone. Malone “struggled” by averaging 25 pts, 10.5 rebounds, 1 block all while shooting 50 % from the field.

To make our PG situation worse, it’s not like we had a guard who could be the “change of pace” guy like Clarkson played last year. Eisley was a pass first undersized guard as well. Just to compare, Conley averaged 9 pts (20 % from 3) and 5 assists in 29 mins in that horrific Dallas series. Similar numbers to Stockton (and we wonder why we suffered an early 1st round exit? Conley was worthless against Dallas).
You shut your filthy whore mouth. Stockton was a god. End of story.
 
In 96-97 and 97-98 I didn't want to see just the Utah Jazz win a championship, I wanted to see Stockton and Malone win a championship. It had been such a journey with so much pain and sacrifice and determination to keep trying. Even in that era there really wasn't another franchise that would have kept the team together to try again and again after all their false starts, near misses and outright failures. If they had traded Stockton to put some random player next to Malone and that team would have won it would have meant half as much to me as it would have meant to watch Stockton and Malone beat Jordan and the Bulls.

I really wouldn't trade that opportunity for Stockton and Malone to beat Jordan and the Bulls for a championship, even falling short, for an actual NBA Championship any other way.

My first game that I went to not a fan of the Jazz was in '92, I left a fan of the Jazz for life. It was against the Bulls, it went triple overtime and the Jazz won. I was days before I got my voice back. I think Madonna went back in time and made a song about what it would have been like for me if the Jazz had beaten the Bulls for a championship.

 
**** this crybaby talk. Malone needs to hit those free throws in game one in 97. And not disappear in other moments. Or have some court awareness and not let Jordan strip him of the ball in 98.
 
**** this crybaby talk. Malone needs to hit those free throws in game one in 97. And not disappear in other moments. Or have some court awareness and not let Jordan strip him of the ball in 98.
He had a reputation his entire NBA career of choking in the playoffs. It wasn't based on nothing.
 
**** this crybaby talk. Malone needs to hit those free throws in game one in 97. And not disappear in other moments. Or have some court awareness and not let Jordan strip him of the ball in 98.
Stockton giving Malone the ball before Hornacek cleared the paint was a stupid mistake. Why pass the ball to the post player whose back is turned to two defenders? One of them being Jordan, a ****ing ball hawk. What good was stockton trying to accomplish here with 15+ left on the shot clock?

Also, if that’s Kerr trying to defend prime Dwill… LOL… that’s bbq chicken right there.


View: https://youtu.be/MlzL6bT1C2U


Which is why it’s hard for me to watch these games after being spoiled for so many years watching so much damn good guard play. The NBA guards today are just so damn big, athletic, or skilled. Kerr on an island trying to defend top guards would be bbq chicken for most. These are the matchups CP3, Young, Murray, Brunson, Spida, DLil, Morrant, and Curry would live for. Hell, even 2nd tier guard like Clarkson exploits this matchup, laughing his way to the cup.

Unfortunately, Stockton didn’t have the size, athleticism, or the attitude at this stage of his career to burn Kerr.
 
Crazy that in the 97-98 season the Jazz were dead last in 3pt attempts per game despite being 5th best at making them. Bryon Russell is one of those dudes who if you put him in the modern era he's probably a drastically more impactful player.
Can confirm. Bruss was very serviceable. The wings on that team were decent. Brus and anderson were good. Like I said before, the weakness of that team wasn’t the wings. If anything, Anderson and Bruss would’ve been our best wings last year. Both were better than Royce.
 
In 96-97 and 97-98 I didn't want to see just the Utah Jazz win a championship, I wanted to see Stockton and Malone win a championship. It had been such a journey with so much pain and sacrifice and determination to keep trying. Even in that era there really wasn't another franchise that would have kept the team together to try again and again after all their false starts, near misses and outright failures. If they had traded Stockton to put some random player next to Malone and that team would have won it would have meant half as much to me as it would have meant to watch Stockton and Malone beat Jordan and the Bulls.

I really wouldn't trade that opportunity for Stockton and Malone to beat Jordan and the Bulls for a championship, even falling short, for an actual NBA Championship any other way.

My first game that I went to not a fan of the Jazz was in '92, I left a fan of the Jazz for life. It was against the Bulls, it went triple overtime and the Jazz won. I was days before I got my voice back. I think Madonna went back in time and made a song about what it would have been like for me if the Jazz had beaten the Bulls for a championship.


Do you remember when Rodman was on San Antonio and was dating Madonna and she came to the Delta Center for a game?
 
Do you remember when Rodman was on San Antonio and was dating Madonna and she came to the Delta Center for a game?
Only vaguely since you suggested it into my memory just now.

I do remember that's around the time we dubbed him "the worm."
 
They should’ve just kept Dominique Wilkins. Hopefully they still would’ve ended up with Stockton and Malone, but the Jazz never should’ve made that trade.
 
On June 2nd 1996, the Jazz lost to the Sonics in the game 7 of the WCF. I remember watching this late in the morning CET on a German satellite channel. The Jazz should've won that game and the series, but Karl's FT touch deserted him in both game 4 and game 7.

Here are all the transactions the Jazz organization would make over the next 3(three!) years.

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This is what hurts. The Jazz were oh-so-close to winning at least one championship, but in those 3 years, not one move was made to actually improve the team. I'm not talking about getting a star like teams might do today or even a decent starter. Just someone who wasn't a net negative, It would've taken so little to push us over the top, but in 3 years, these are the moves the team made. It's heartbreaking.

Let's start at the top. I get that Felton Spencer wasn't good, but it'd be nice to have traded him for something other than two players who would never score a point for the Jazz and a future pick. That the Jazz didn't make another trade until Feb 1999 is...mindboggling. And even that trade was for Todd effin' Fuller. The Jazz signed a bunch of players, but these were end-of-the-bench guys who ended up getting cut later in the season. Or they were Stephen Howard, which might actually be even worse.

The Jazz get to the Finals, lose some close, heartbreaking games, and then do absolutely nothing. Jacque Vaughn was drafted to play behind Eisley. That's it. Oh, and William Cunningham was signed to two 10-day contracts, and somehow ended up starting two games. I remember watching one of the two and doing a double take. I had no idea the Jazz had even signed someone. Of, course, the Jazz lose another close Finals series in possibly even more heart-breaking fashion.

The Bulls get broken up and the Jazz were now the title favourites once the lockout ended, but again, no moves of any kind. The Jazz draft Nazr Mohammed and promptly trade him. Now, I'm not saying rookie Mohammed would've made a difference, but could he not be traded for something other than a draft pick? And I get that players didn't want to play in Utah and all that crap, but this is a team that just went to two straight finals and have kept their core intact and just saw their biggest rivals dismantled. You can't tell me the best you could do is 4 players who were CBA level and the corpse of Thurl Bailey. The Spurs signed Elie and Kersey for free that year and the Blazers signed Greg Anthony and Jim Jackson.

It especially hurts because with 10 games to go, the Jazz were 32-8 and 2 games ahead of the Blazers and 4 games ahead of the Spurs. The aging and rusty(lockout) Jazz team would finish 5-5 and find themselves in a three-way tie with the two teams above and end up 3rd because of tie-breakers, meaning no HC advantage beyond the first round. Just a little bit of help and a few younger, fresher legs might have made the difference. The Spurs weren't quite that good yet, and the Knicks were in the Finals to make up numbers, for the most part. It's just infuriating how incompetent the front office was.
 
Stockton giving Malone the ball before Hornacek cleared the paint was a stupid mistake. Why pass the ball to the post player whose back is turned to two defenders? One of them being Jordan, a ****ing ball hawk. What good was stockton trying to accomplish here with 15+ left on the shot clock?

Also, if that’s Kerr trying to defend prime Dwill… LOL… that’s bbq chicken right there.


View: https://youtu.be/MlzL6bT1C2U


Which is why it’s hard for me to watch these games after being spoiled for so many years watching so much damn good guard play. The NBA guards today are just so damn big, athletic, or skilled. Kerr on an island trying to defend top guards would be bbq chicken for most. These are the matchups CP3, Young, Murray, Brunson, Spida, DLil, Morrant, and Curry would live for. Hell, even 2nd tier guard like Clarkson exploits this matchup, laughing his way to the cup.

Unfortunately, Stockton didn’t have the size, athleticism, or the attitude at this stage of his career to burn Kerr.

The difference in eras is insane. Every single player besides the dude guarding Stockton is touching the paint.
 
This is what hurts. The Jazz were oh-so-close to winning at least one championship, but in those 3 years, not one move was made to actually improve the team. I'm not talking about getting a star like teams might do today or even a decent starter. Just someone who wasn't a net negative, It would've taken so little to push us over the top, but in 3 years, these are the moves the team made. It's heartbreaking.

Let's start at the top. I get that Felton Spencer wasn't good, but it'd be nice to have traded him for something other than two players who would never score a point for the Jazz and a future pick. That the Jazz didn't make another trade until Feb 1999 is...mindboggling. And even that trade was for Todd effin' Fuller. The Jazz signed a bunch of players, but these were end-of-the-bench guys who ended up getting cut later in the season. Or they were Stephen Howard, which might actually be even worse.

The Jazz get to the Finals, lose some close, heartbreaking games, and then do absolutely nothing. Jacque Vaughn was drafted to play behind Eisley. That's it. Oh, and William Cunningham was signed to two 10-day contracts, and somehow ended up starting two games. I remember watching one of the two and doing a double take. I had no idea the Jazz had even signed someone. Of, course, the Jazz lose another close Finals series in possibly even more heart-breaking fashion.

The Bulls get broken up and the Jazz were now the title favourites once the lockout ended, but again, no moves of any kind. The Jazz draft Nazr Mohammed and promptly trade him. Now, I'm not saying rookie Mohammed would've made a difference, but could he not be traded for something other than a draft pick? And I get that players didn't want to play in Utah and all that crap, but this is a team that just went to two straight finals and have kept their core intact and just saw their biggest rivals dismantled. You can't tell me the best you could do is 4 players who were CBA level and the corpse of Thurl Bailey. The Spurs signed Elie and Kersey for free that year and the Blazers signed Greg Anthony and Jim Jackson.

It especially hurts because with 10 games to go, the Jazz were 32-8 and 2 games ahead of the Blazers and 4 games ahead of the Spurs. The aging and rusty(lockout) Jazz team would finish 5-5 and find themselves in a three-way tie with the two teams above and end up 3rd because of tie-breakers, meaning no HC advantage beyond the first round. Just a little bit of help and a few younger, fresher legs might have made the difference. The Spurs weren't quite that good yet, and the Knicks were in the Finals to make up numbers, for the most part. It's just infuriating how incompetent the front office was.
The more things change the more they stay the same. Could’ve drafted Bane… went with Doka. Could’ve drafted Herb Jones went with Butler (when we already had a glut of PGs). The incompetence over the last 3 years doomed the Gobert/Mitchell era.
 
The more things change the more they stay the same. Could’ve drafted Bane… went with Doka. Could’ve drafted Herb Jones went with Butler (when we already had a glut of PGs). The incompetence over the last 3 years doomed the Gobert/Mitchell era.
True, but when you hear who put that runner-up Celtics squad together and look at our growing pick cache, help is on the horizon!
 
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