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* NEW * 2019 Annual JazzFanz All-Time NBA Draft

fishonjazz said:
I think rings are a bit over rated.
I think Malone is the best pf ever (Duncan was a center) and he has no rings. Stockton has no rings.

If Tim Duncan was drafted by Toronto instead of the Spurs how many rings would he have?

If Malone and Stockton were drafted after mj retired would they have rings?

Often the GM is the most responsible for the rings.

If the jazz drafted kahwi instead of Burks does that mean the jazz win a championship or did Duncan, Parker, manu, and pop play a big part in kahwi getting that ring? If Toronto GM doesn't make the moves he made last year, along with a very lucky bounce against the sixers, along with some crucial injuries to the warriors does kahwi get a ring last year?

Rings matter but they can be over rated as well imo.

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Malone and Stockton had two years to win it all without MJ and they didn’t. Malone couldn’t destroy Otis Thorpe and Stockton got bested by Kenny Smith and a rookie (and then second year player) in Sam Cassell.

Greatness rises to the top and makes those around you better. It’s why rings matter imo. Not singularly because you make fair points as well but they absolutely matter.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don’t know how we’re supposed to compare players in drafts like these. Is it career average vs career average? Is it peak vs peak?

All I know is this happened. Put peak Hakeem up against anyone in the last 20 years and I pick Hakeem over anyone besides Jordan.



It bears repeating that Hakeem is the only player to win MVP, DPOY, and finals MVP in the same season. That season, the next best player was... Kenny Smith? Otis Thorpe? No one has done anything that impressive with less help.

The next season, he took out Malone, emasculated the great paper tiger David Robinson (who won nothing significant until Duncan showed up) at his peak, Kemp, and then SWEPT Shaq and the Magic. The defeat was so complete that he made the self-proclaimed “Most Dominant Ever” cry by his own admission.

I guess it depends on what criteria. Robinson is an all-time great, at least statistically, but he never once scared me as a Jazz fan.
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You make some fair points but Robinson is an all-time great like you said and only the fourth option on my team really.
 
Btw, I haven’t looked at all the teams in this yet but there’s one that I think might be voted to win it all because perception often wins out. That’s not to say this team isn’t very good. It is. But this team has guys from thee era.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
I wonder how Pistol would be thought of today had knee injuries not cut short his career, and had he played with a good team or good players around him.
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The idea that Pistol wasn’t a good shooter because he didn’t shoot and make a ton of threes right after the idea was introduced is absurd. This is why the conversation of era is SO important. It is a conversation of art and imagination between anything before the 80’s and now because they are such, such different games.
 
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Wes Mantooth said:
You make some fair points but Robinson is an all-time great like you said and only the fourth option on my team really.
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That’s because the C position isn’t utilized like it used to be, but when you’re as good as Hakeem was. The passing footwork, and offensive Arsenal Hakeem has he’s a 1 or 2 in any era
 
Thee jazz fan said:
That’s because the C position isn’t utilized like it used to be, but when you’re as good as Hakeem was. The passing footwork, and offensive Arsenal Hakeem has he’s a 1 or 2 in any era
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Hakeem would dominate in any era (at least as long as he had the spacing, though I’m sure having others that aren’t great shooters but have serious gravity also works well). Pairing his offensive prowess with his demonstrated ability to switch five positions when needed and still be the all-time leader in blocks is other-worldly.
 
UB said:
If you love Olajuwon, then you gotta like Embiid.
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I like Embiid. He’s not nearly the defender Olajuwon was, and he’s just kind of a joke broadly speaking. I love that he can shoot like he can and his talent is incredible. But he’s somehow found a way to have a bigger mouth than his game.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I like Embiid. He’s not nearly the defender Olajuwon was, and he’s just kind of a joke broadly speaking. I love that he can shoot like he can and his talent is incredible. But he’s somehow found a way to have a bigger mouth than his game.
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Also not sure he’s even close to the passer Hakeem was. That was a big part of his game
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Also not sure he’s even close to the passer Hakeem was. That was a big part of his game
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Hakeem acquired passing well into his career. It was initially a point of weakness that held the Rockets back, but he figured that out. Embiid actually has some impressive ability there, I couldn’t say who is or was better.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The idea that Pistol wasn’t a good shooter because he didn’t shoot and make a ton of threes right after the idea was introduced is absurd. This is why the conversation of era is SO important. It is a conversation of art and imagination between anything before the 80’s and now because they are such, such different games.
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C’mon, that’s exaggerating what I said. We know there’s a large contingent out there who’d say, “And Pistol scored that without a three point line,” implying he would’ve scored 5-10 more points a game had there been a three point line at his peak because he bombed from everywhere on the court. I simply provided those stats to show he really wasn’t bombing that much like myths that we’ve heard.
 
There is still a draft going on, right?
 
Getting back to the Maravich discussion, I always assumed that if he played in the modern era he would have put up numbers similar to Allen Iverson at his best and Stephon Marbury at his worst.
 
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