Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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I just did
* NEW * 2019 Annual JazzFanz All-Time NBA Draft
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LoPo
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Oh, please do explain.
If a current contender usually relies on 8 maybe 9 players, why are the 9th and 10th guys game changers or even relevant at all? Are we running simulations where guys get hurt?
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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ROTFL
Lillard, Dumars, Iggy, Artest, Bird, Hakeem
Keefe
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Yeah like that better.
Great spacing and D around arguably the most skilled scoring big and defender ever. Complemented further by unselfish players that are adept passers, do what it takes to win, and have PROVEN it.
Like, a lineup of Iggy, Artest, and Hakeem is the toughest defensive lineup in this whole contest even if the two other players are corpses.
LoPo
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Not a chance...
Walt Frazier (7x All Defense)
Donovan Mitchell (good defender)
John Havlicek (known as being Pippen before Pippen)
Scottie Pippen (best perimeter defender ever)
Bill Russell (top 2 defensive post player ever)
Robert Horry (incredible defender)
Your team is good, but it's not the best defensive lineup in this contest.
My team?
LoPo
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That team. Whoever has Artest, Iggy and Hakeem.
I’m not a participant and that team no longer exists.
fishonjazz
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How much each player wins the matchup by matters too.
Lillard and Thomas are very close.
Miller and pistol are more of a tie for me.
Leonard wins pretty convincingly against VC
Giannis wins pretty convincingly against Bosh. (Probably the biggest margin of the bunch)
Hakeem and Robinson are pretty close.
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fishonjazz
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I factor the bench much when I vote. It's kind of a tiebreaker for me if I can't decide between the starting lineups
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Keefe
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I don’t think we can say Thomas and Lillard are very close. Thomas is a top 3-5 point guard. Lillard might not be top 15.
And Miller and Pistol a tie? One guy brought winning and insanely clutch play? The other guy brought a lot of shooting and fanciness.
Hakeem destroys Robinson
Giannis destroys Bosh
Lillard can shoot
Pistol is one of the most skilled players to ever touch a basketball and Reggie Miller is a bit overrated.
Leonard absolutely destroys VC as a real basketball player, though, of course.
LogGrad98
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Why speculate? Hakeem vs Robinson.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=cjKM8
In 42 head to head matchups their stats are virtually identical. But Robinson's teams won 30 of the matchups.
Imo they basically cancel each other out.
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fishonjazz
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How many rings did Miller get again?
Pistol could do what Miller did (shoot) and more
And Lillard's career isn't over. Post the stats from Thomas best season and Lillard's best season. Let's see if they are close (I haven't looked yet and have no idea)
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fishonjazz
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I think rings are a bit over rated.
I think Malone is the best pf ever (Duncan was a center) and he has no rings. Stockton has no rings.
If Tim Duncan was drafted by Toronto instead of the Spurs how many rings would he have?
If Malone and Stockton were drafted after mj retired would they have rings?
Often the GM is the most responsible for the rings.
If the jazz drafted kahwi instead of Burks does that mean the jazz win a championship or did Duncan, Parker, manu, and pop play a big part in kahwi getting that ring? If Toronto GM doesn't make the moves he made last year, along with a very lucky bounce against the sixers, along with some crucial injuries to the warriors does kahwi get a ring last year?
Rings matter but they can be over rated as well imo.
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I think Malone is the best pf ever (Duncan was a center) and he has no rings. Stockton has no rings.
If Tim Duncan was drafted by Toronto instead of the Spurs how many rings would he have?
If Malone and Stockton were drafted after mj retired would they have rings?
Often the GM is the most responsible for the rings.
If the jazz drafted kahwi instead of Burks does that mean the jazz win a championship or did Duncan, Parker, manu, and pop play a big part in kahwi getting that ring? If Toronto GM doesn't make the moves he made last year, along with a very lucky bounce against the sixers, along with some crucial injuries to the warriors does kahwi get a ring last year?
Rings matter but they can be over rated as well imo.
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Keefe
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Miller was the #1 option on a Finals team at least. Maravich’s teams didn’t win. Like, at all. And the last few years, with the three point line, he never shot more than 0.6 attempts per game, so his shooting wonders, like much of mythology, are a bit overstated. Miller on the other hand had ten seasons, TEN, shooting over 40% from 3 on high volume. He shot 88.8% from the line for his career. He is one of the most clutch and feared shooters ever. They’re not comparable imo.
Lillard’s stats likely blow Thomas’ away overall, so far as % anyway. The game was so different then and efficiency has become an art. That’s neither here nor there. I know you’re around my age. And I know you know Thomas is a top 3-6 (at the absolute lowest) point guard ever. His ability to score/close huge games in clutch fashion, distribute, and of course be the #1 option on a title team is almost legendary. His best season though, since you asked was 21.2 points, 13.9 assists (with just 3.7 turnovers so a 7:2 ratio), 4.5 rebounds, and 2.3 steals was probably his best statistical season.
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Hornacekamania
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Agree with all of this. Figuring out how to put together the right talent to win a championship is insanely difficult. It is a skill that you can't practice.
I don’t know how we’re supposed to compare players in drafts like these. Is it career average vs career average? Is it peak vs peak?
All I know is this happened. Put peak Hakeem up against anyone in the last 40 years and I pick Hakeem over anyone besides Jordan.
It bears repeating that Hakeem is the only player to win MVP, DPOY, and finals MVP in the same season. That season, the next best player was... Kenny Smith? Otis Thorpe? No one has done anything that impressive with less help.
The next season, he took out Malone, emasculated the great paper tiger David Robinson (who won nothing significant until Duncan showed up) at his peak, Kemp, and then SWEPT Shaq and the Magic. The defeat was so complete that he made the self-proclaimed “Most Dominant Ever” cry by his own admission.
I guess it depends on what criteria. Robinson is an all-time great, at least statistically, but he never once scared me as a Jazz fan.
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