Good morning, Walker Kessler had 22 points last night with a 105% true shooting percentage.
No Extension for Walker Kessler?
- Thread starter Handlogten's Heros
- Start date
I really feel like most of JFC has brainrot when it comes to the Walker situation.
Walker will have a low cap hold. The Jazz will pay him. They can make moves before that to strengthen the team with the cap-space. The Jazz seem to be further along than national media and the fanbase expected.
Walker will have a low cap hold. The Jazz will pay him. They can make moves before that to strengthen the team with the cap-space. The Jazz seem to be further along than national media and the fanbase expected.
Correct, we can go over the cap to extend him if needed as well.
Idk, I think it would be good to pay a guy right before a breakout season and not create a contentious relationship. I prefer that over having a little bit more cap space, especially because we could structure a contract that gives us relief in the future. If that's brainrot, I have brainrot.
The relationship hasn’t been the best from the start. I’m also fine using this season as confirmation that he’s worth the extension money.
Please give me evidence, any kind, of what Walker was willing to take.
People heard the Jazz/Walker were done negotiating and they freaked out. Maybe Walker/Agent just really bet on themselves and Utah was fine with Walker going into the season with extra motivation to be the best he can be.
Just feel like most people here are under this false impression that Walker would have taken 25 million per year. I dont know that he wouldnt, but I have no reason to believe he would given the free agent market and the lack of high level centers available in it.
Just feel like most people here are under this false impression that Walker would have taken 25 million per year. I dont know that he wouldnt, but I have no reason to believe he would given the free agent market and the lack of high level centers available in it.
It'd also be another thing if Duren signed something like a 25 million a year deal and the Jazz/Walker had some kind of baseline of what a 2nd contract starting level center w/ upside is worth, but that didnt happen. It seems like both Kessler and Duren saw that bigs are in high demand and there is money out there, and they want to get paid.
rjfan
Well-Known Member
If you look at the price range that current level of contracts that Gobert (still very impactful, but far removed from his peak at 33yo and declining), Jarrett Allen and Hartenstein recently signed (not all in this postseason, but close), I would expect the Floor for the negotiations being around the average between them 3 as the standard value for "elite non shooting big man", regardless of how realístic It would be to expect the Jazz to go for like 25+ (or even 30+) at that point.
The cap has gone up since those players were signed, so cant be used as a 1:1 comparison.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I actually think the relationship is fine. The Jazz will use assets and cap space to add another All Star level player through trade (and possible a top 10 draft pick depending on the final results) and then they’ll extend him to a fair amount for both sides. I’d be surprised if Walker even gets to the QO/Offer sheet stage if his RFA - much like Kuminga and Grimes this year.
Please give me evidence of any kind of what the Jazz were offering. We're both using made up numbers for what the Jazz offered and what Kessler would have accepted. It doesn't change the premise that extending a guy before he breaks out is better than after. This is especially the case when it's a rookie extension versus RFA. In RFA, it's certain that the offer sheet team will make it as bad as possible for us. During the rookie extension period, we have many more options to create a deal that is both team and player favorable.
The Jazz position was strong if Kessler sucked this year, the opposite is true if he plays well.
I agree that the relationship hasn't been good. IMO, all of this is just a reflection of the Jazz not being huge Kessler fans. This non-extension is one of many events that suggest that. I think it's fine to say, "we didn't believe in him, that was a mistake, we get to keep him anyways so it's not a disaster". If you're not sure, you can take the wait and see approach. That is what reflects reality IMO. It's not optimal and we'll look at as a mistake, but not tragic....well it depends on what hypothetical Kessler extension is versus hypothetical RFA contract is. The difference could prove to be tragic as well as further tarnishing the relationship, which is what happened with Hayward.
Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
I don’t think the relationship has been bad. They’ve just been tanking and he has been great on defense and minutes on offense so far.
We can make up any numbers we want to put the blame on one side or the other. It could be the case that either side was being completely unreasonable, it's all BS until we actually know the numbers. But it's pretty simple logic to say that if Kessler plays well, he's going to get more than what we could have extended him for. If he plays poorly, he's going to get less than what we could have extended him for. Kessler bet on himself, the Jazz bet against him.
And no, I do not believe in this "cap space preservation" thing. I am in full agreement with @Handlogten's Heros that this a dumb explanation. Long term financial relief from a front loaded contract is significantly more important.
And no, I do not believe in this "cap space preservation" thing. I am in full agreement with @Handlogten's Heros that this a dumb explanation. Long term financial relief from a front loaded contract is significantly more important.
Handlogten's Heros
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Look... I have tried to be like subtle about this. When I say the Jazz never negotiated anything in good faith... that is not a guess. The Jazz made a low ball offer in the neighborhood of the cap hold so that they could say they made an offer. The sides were about $50M apart but the Jazz said "lets pick this up next summer" an insane 3-4 weeks away from the deadline. This is 100% on the Jazz.
They have commitment issues. They are misreading the lay of the land. They "negotiated" in a lazy way. They fumbled the bag and now its a matter of how much damage they did. Indecisiveness is not "Flexibility".
They have commitment issues. They are misreading the lay of the land. They "negotiated" in a lazy way. They fumbled the bag and now its a matter of how much damage they did. Indecisiveness is not "Flexibility".
Handlogten's Heros
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And now our goals are diametrically opposed with Walker. We want to lose. He wants to perform his best. You cannot sit him now if you need to... and based on last night and preseason... we may need to.
He won't shoot 100% every night but we cutoff negotiations before even knowing what RFA would be out there with our cap space. Its just some lazy BS.
Or they were just way too far apart…
We're all excited about Walker last night, and we should be. Who knows what the rest of the season holds, but that was about as promising as you can get. I really don't know how you can look at that and say, wow the Jazz did a really good job here. That's just how this works. If he sucked we know with 100% certainty that people would be saying "thank god we didn't extend him".