Omnibus Gordon Hayward Thread (To clean up the Board some)

[framer]

Meh, not reading through all of this. Sorry if the points have been made.
I think that we have a very comparable player in Burks, so the marginal utility value of Hayward to us is not worth a max contract. We are going to move toward two talented point guards and a pick and roll game which puts Hayward on the wing waiting to shoot a 3. He can do that and do it well. That job is not worth a max contract. I'm not convinced Hood can't do that for us.
He can initiate the offense which sets him apart. We don't need him to do that.
I wonder if the jazz can finagle a sign and trade that gets rid of that trade kicker, which I don't suppose the Hornets really want either. That 4th year player option is useless as Hayward isn't going to get more than 18 million that the 4th year will give him. I doubt we can get much because the Hornets want Hayward to pair with MKG.
I just don't see a reason to keep him at that contract. I mean sometime you have to bite the bullet and overpay on potential, but I think Hayward is the one guy that we actually know enough to judge and he isn't valuable at that salary to us. He's a difference maker in the East. Here, not so much. . .
If we don't match, I want Marvin Williams back though.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hayward is considered a top 50 player in the league. Such hyperbole...

pretty sure you are trolling

Hayward was ranked 90th in the league from what somebody posted earlier.

You funny

 

[fishonjazz]

2. With contracts capped at 4 or 5 years, why would a team trade a true superstar for a wildly overpaid role player? Precedent?

This is what i have been saying

Franklin is trolling

 

[GVC]

Meh, not reading through all of this. Sorry if the points have been made.
I think that we have a very comparable player in Burks, so the marginal utility value of Hayward to us is not worth a max contract. We are going to move toward two talented point guards and a pick and roll game which puts Hayward on the wing waiting to shoot a 3. He can do that and do it well. That job is not worth a max contract. I'm not convinced Hood can't do that for us.
He can initiate the offense which sets him apart. We don't need him to do that.
I wonder if the jazz can finagle a sign and trade that gets rid of that trade kicker, which I don't suppose the Hornets really want either. That 4th year player option is useless as Hayward isn't going to get more than 18 million that the 4th year will give him. I doubt we can get much because the Hornets want Hayward to pair with MKG.
I just don't see a reason to keep him at that contract. I mean sometime you have to bite the bullet and overpay on potential, but I think Hayward is the one guy that we actually know enough to judge and he isn't valuable at that salary to us. He's a difference maker in the East. Here, not so much. . .
If we don't match, I want Marvin Williams back though.

Well said.

I'm still torn on matching/declining. Fingers crossed for a sign-and-trade.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Well said.

I'm still torn on matching/declining. Fingers crossed for a sign-and-trade.

Who would be dumb enough to do a sign and trade to pay him even more money? Am I missing something? Or are you thinking the Hornets will adjust the offer to remove the kicker in order to facilitate a sign and trade with the Jazz? Can they do that, the offer is not locked in until signed, correct?

 

[GVC]

Who would be dumb enough to do a sign and trade to pay him even more money? Am I missing something? Or are you thinking the Hornets will adjust the offer to remove the kicker in order to facilitate a sign and trade with the Jazz? Can they do that, the offer is not locked in until signed, correct?

Can't get more money. They could agree to a sign-and-trade to ensure Utah doesn't match. Utah gets a player and a pick (or something like that), Charlotte gets Gordo.

Also, the kicker doesn't affect the sign-and-trade, and perhaps Charlotte could remove the kicker in a sign-and-trade.

 

[TroutBum]

Why did DL need to bait someone into taking him off our hands?

I have no idea, nor will I even pretend to know. I like to imagine, however, that DL somehow manipulated Jordan into thinking he was going to screw us (like Portland did to us) and then we reversed it. Like others have stated, it doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to tell the world you'll match any offer before any offer is even made. Why would any professional destroy their only possible bargaining chip unless:

A) We're talking about a franchise player that everyone knows you're going to match.

Or

B) We're playing mind games. Utah has a history of making these kind of mistakes in the past, so is it so hard to believe we would do it again?

I think DL is brilliant.

 

[TroutBum]

Man i'm posting for 6 hours on Realgm Knicks board melo thread as you know i'm the no 1 melo fan and you know, my brain is erupting right now lol.

So you're a dumbass then?

Your posts make a lot more sense now.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think if the Jazz weren't willing to go over 4 yrs. / $50 million last year, they'll be reluctant to do it this year. I don't think they gained much new information over the past year. Okay, Hayward had a so-so year, but his value is based on what the market will pay. The Jazz knew this, and they could see how many teams would have cap space this summer. They could have predicted Hayward would have gotten an offer over $50 mil. If the Jazz were willing to go to 4 yrs. / $55 million last summer, I think they would have done it and given Hayward the extension.

What the Jazz have learned in the past year is that Kanter is a potential 20/10 player, that Burks can score at a high level, and that Exum is now on the team. So due to those factors, I don't see how Hayward is a max-value player to this Jazz team, and I'd be surprised actually if the Jazz match the offer sheet. They've been so careful to protect their cap space and flexibility thusfar.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I have no idea, nor will I even pretend to know. I like to imagine, however, that DL somehow manipulated Jordan into thinking he was going to screw us (like Portland did to us) and then we reversed it. Like others have stated, it doesn't make sense, from a business standpoint, to tell the world you'll match any offer before any offer is even made. Why would any professional destroy their only possible bargaining chip unless:

A) We're talking about a franchise player that everyone knows you're going to match.

Or

B) We're playing mind games. Utah has a history of making these kind of mistakes in the past, so is it so hard to believe we would do it again?

I think DL is brilliant.

When DL tells the league, "We'll match any offer," he's posturing in the hopes that no one will then bother to make a big offer to snatch Hayward away. The Hornets think DL is bluffing when he says this. They're trying to call his bluff. I don't think either the Hornets or the Jazz care about hamstringing the other team's payroll. The Hornets apparently want Gordon on their team.

 

[Zombie]

man let him walk.. give 10 per for parsons.. im dumbfounded that this dude wants a fkn max.

Parsons is getting 3 years 46m from Dallas (or Houston if they match). any other bright ideas?

 

[franklin]

1. The Jazz have not historically been a team that could consistently go way into LT territory. The Lakers, Blazers, Nets, Knicks, Mavs, etc. are in a different league in terms of the potential damage of acquiring/signing players for way above their on-court value.

2. With contracts capped at 4 or 5 years, why would a team trade a true superstar for a wildly overpaid role player? Precedent?

3. What the hell is a "utility"?

1. The LT is $13 million over the cap. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

2. Kevin Love is being shopped for Klay Thompson & David Lee. I have a hard time believing that a slightly overpaid Hayward ($1-2mm max in 2017) and three first round draft picks wouldn't be at least as enticing for a player of his caliber.

You seem to be worshiping cap space as the prophet to lead us to the magic land. That's great and all, but it's a one trick pony that's not all too promising. There are other options and I'm surprised you of all people aren't even considering them.