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Omnibus Gordon Hayward Thread (To clean up the Board some)

mellow said:
But you can't skip steps! Never mind that the mysterious steps have never been named or numbered. It is good enough for the fans and media to know that we just can't skip any of them.

I'm still considering the idea that the Spurs sent out their minions to Utah, Philly, and Orlando to weaken the playing field by destroying the competing from within. Looking at the deals the three teams have been involved with it would be hard to argue otherwise.
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Bloody hell. You act like you can rebuild in 1 season.
If Exum isn't Kobe next season, FIRE LINDSEY. We were tanking to get a franchise player and the tank is wasted if Exum isn't a 20/10 player from Day #1.

So all of you were happy with a roster full of vets, including Big Al, Paul and Demarre that MISSED the playoffs. Fine, let's keep the status quo, add a 12th-14th pick every season. Maybe make the playoffs every other year and - if all goes well - maybe even win ONE home game.

How many losing seasons did OKC have in building their team? How did SA get Duncan?
Utah ain't South Beach. Sorry, but three superstars aren't going to join forces to build a contender in the city of Utah. Millers aren't Prokhorov; they can't spend $150M on payroll.

Teams rebuild. They go through bad stretches.
Lakers after Magic (and then after Shaq), Boston after Bird (and now after Garnett, Pierce, Allen), Chicago after MJ, even Utah after Malone/Stockton. Every other team in the league has rebuilt. SA was the luckiest franchise ever. The one season they had serious injuries netted them Tim Duncan.

Of course Utah was almost that lucky. KOC "retooled" with FA's and the one season the Jazz were a MASH unit resulted in the Deron draft.

The skipping steps just means signing mid-tier, aging FA's to big contracts just to make the playoffs. That's the model of the Knicks, Nets, etc. To be a successful small-market team you need to draft well, develop those players into all-stars and hope they stay with you at reasonable contract values. What has made SA so damn successful? Look at their payroll. They can bring in great FA additions because Duncan, Ginobili and Parker are earning much less than they could anywhere else.
 
sojodave said:
Your right Big Country Hayward could have signed a deal last year and he would probably have good feelings amongst Jazz fans. Instead, Gordon Kirelenko thought he would put up big numbers last year. Instead, Amare Hayward shot miserably and sulked most of the year. We'll see if Ben Gordon Hayward can live up to his contract.
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Made me laugh
 
What happened?

For the past two years we have been hearing repeatedly that the greatest asset the Jazz has is cap space.
Over and over we have heard that with the new CBA teams will be hamstrung by contracts and the few teams with cap space will have the freedom to grab assets without fear of price gouging.

Here we are at the moment we should be reaping the rewards of our greatest asset, and it is biting us in the a$$.
 
GVC said:
2 things:

1. None of that changes the fact that DL sat on his hands in Year 1, getting nothing for his top players in trades.

2. Letting players walk is easy if ownership gives you the green light. GMs should be evaluated on how well they do with that freedom. Jury is still out on DL's moves.
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Sure, jury is still out, but I'd rather have hope for being a real contender than fighting for 8-10 in the west every year. That team topped out and I'm happy they didn't try to build around sap and Al as they are not top players at their position. We aren't getting to the top 5 in the west with that squad.

With assets now and another good pick next year at least we have a chance. Depends on what you want out of your team. Borderline playoff team as a ceiling, first round exit, or the possibility of landing a top guy, building around that and moving up to top of the west.

Millsap and Al aren't in the conversion for all-star/all nba if they stay west.

Id rather swing for building a real contender than be first round fodder. That's me though. Some would rather just have a decent playoff team that has no real shot at getting to the conf finals.


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mellow said:
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The first two were let go so we could collect multiple draft picks with the cap space from Golden State. The second two weren't really worth anything. If DL let's him go so we can take a bunch a cap space and multiple picks from someone, I'm all for it. But I doubt that deal happens this year. Too many teams have lots of cap space.
 
Not sure if they should match, but I have to say... Judging him as not worth it on the basis of the way the team was run last year is shortsighted.

If they don't match, there will be lots of talk next year about how the Jazz blew it... much like Wes Matthews. If they do, we will talk all year about how overpaid he is.

Lose Lose proposition, although he will be one rich loser.
 
Core4 said:
Bloody hell. You act like you can rebuild in 1 season.
If Exum isn't Kobe next season, FIRE LINDSEY. We were tanking to get a franchise player and the tank is wasted if Exum isn't a 20/10 player from Day #1.

So all of you were happy with a roster full of vets, including Big Al, Paul and Demarre that MISSED the playoffs. Fine, let's keep the status quo, add a 12th-14th pick every season. Maybe make the playoffs every other year and - if all goes well - maybe even win ONE home game.

How many losing seasons did OKC have in building their team? How did SA get Duncan?
Utah ain't South Beach. Sorry, but three superstars aren't going to join forces to build a contender in the city of Utah. Millers aren't Prokhorov; they can't spend $150M on payroll.

Teams rebuild. They go through bad stretches.
Lakers after Magic (and then after Shaq), Boston after Bird (and now after Garnett, Pierce, Allen), Chicago after MJ, even Utah after Malone/Stockton. Every other team in the league has rebuilt. SA was the luckiest franchise ever. The one season they had serious injuries netted them Tim Duncan.

Of course Utah was almost that lucky. KOC "retooled" with FA's and the one season the Jazz were a MASH unit resulted in the Deron draft.

The skipping steps just means signing mid-tier, aging FA's to big contracts just to make the playoffs. That's the model of the Knicks, Nets, etc. To be a successful small-market team you need to draft well, develop those players into all-stars and hope they stay with you at reasonable contract values. What has made SA so damn successful? Look at their payroll. They can bring in great FA additions because Duncan, Ginobili and Parker are earning much less than they could anywhere else.
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I never gave a timeline, my criticism you quoted was specific to Lindsey using the phrase skipping steps without ever explaining what that means.

That's what you infer, Lindsey has never elaborated about what the steps are, or how long it might take. It is a brilliant safety net strategy on his part. I want the media to push him on it and get him to explain.
 
colton said:
Yes, that continually bugs me whenever he says that.
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I think it's clear what the vision is.

For example. Skipping a step right now would be signing guys that would make us too good next year to get a top 5 pick, when that needs to be delayed one more year.

Say Exum becomes a top 5 pG. We need another guy who may become top 5 at position. Get him next summer then build around these young guys and hope it pans out.


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AlaskanAssassin said:
The first two were let go so we could collect multiple draft picks with the cap space from Golden State. The second two weren't really worth anything. If DL let's him go so we can take a bunch a cap space and multiple picks from someone, I'm all for it. But I doubt that deal happens this year. Too many teams have lots of cap space.
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Except that Boston just got a bigger haul for taking on less salary.
 
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