On the record...

[Handlogten's Heros]

Bogey for Smart straight across is not a move that tilts away from the future. I’ve said this. It’s actually in the post you directly quoted.

If that deal was on the table and we didn’t take it, it’s because we overvalued our players and didn’t give enough consideration to the obvious issues on the roster.

Over-valuing our current players is very much a concern with DL. To think that deal was on the table and Danny passed is not super reasonable. He would be much more inclined to over value his guy over a guy that had been on the Jazz for a while.

I think the Boston talks were "hey we want Smart" and they were like "how about J Rich?". If you think Bogey for Richardson moves the needle and would qualify as passing on something we should have tried then fair... but I think those were likely the deal types that were on the table unless we threw a pick on the table. That pick would need to have VERY limited projections because of other obligations. We had no other real sweetners... couldn't even do a "we won't give you a first but we will do 3 seconds!"

Bogey and a 2018 first for Smart? Maybe that was on the table... and maybe we should have done it... but you have to recognize the big risk that would have been to try and save the sinking ship.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

In the board game world, where play-to-win is basically a raffle, and stores sometimes have raffles at their events.

At a firm I worked with they had a Christmas raffle and there were some good prizes... you only got one ticket and there were 100 people and like 4 good prizes. Even then there were still like 25-30% of the people that made an appearance and left early... free booze and an ipod touch was not enough to socialize with co-workers outside of business hours.

 

[Jingled]

Bogey for Smart straight across is not a move that tilts away from the future. I’ve said this. It’s actually in the post you directly quoted.

If that deal was on the table and we didn’t take it, it’s because we overvalued our players and didn’t give enough consideration to the obvious issues on the roster.

If that deal was on the table Ainge would've jumped on it. I'm guessing the Celtics would've wanted a pick along with Bogey.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Once Danny took over the assets that DL had managed their value wasn't amazing. Maybe Quin was the real problem since he shut down an Ingles trade. I just have a hard time believing that since Danny seemed to really try and keep him but who knows.

I think once Danny took over and tried to trade our guys he saw the offers and was like "oh ****". When we flamed out (during the season and in the playoffs) it was obvious changes had to be made, but when he saw the player return for Rudy it was meh... and then he got a huge offer out of Minny. At that point I genuinely think he pivoted to preferring a full rebuild. That is when I think he said "well last season was zero fun... we have the guy who was a large part of that still on the roster... we have a pile of new picks... we have the opportunity to get another pile with Don... we have some vets to sell off... ya know Ryan we could really turn this thing around quick".

Ryan said "absolutley not we have an AS game and I have a new collection of backwards hats I can wear with the amazing new re-brand".

Danny said "let me show you how much money I can save you in this rebuild"

Ryan "oh... yeah... rebuild sounds great"

 

[homeytennis]

Here is my prediction: The guys on the team's website today 8/12 will open the season with the Jazz. That includes Whiteside, DM and all the TWolve dudes. The other teams jackpotted around with Ainge so he just said FU to the rest of the league and to DM.

 

[KqWIN]

Over-valuing our current players is very much a concern with DL. To think that deal was on the table and Danny passed is not super reasonable. He would be much more inclined to over value his guy over a guy that had been on the Jazz for a while.

I think the Boston talks were "hey we want Smart" and they were like "how about J Rich?". If you think Bogey for Richardson moves the needle and would qualify as passing on something we should have tried then fair... but I think those were likely the deal types that were on the table unless we threw a pick on the table. That pick would need to have VERY limited projections because of other obligations. We had no other real sweetners... couldn't even do a "we won't give you a first but we will do 3 seconds!"

Bogey and a 2018 first for Smart? Maybe that was on the table... and maybe we should have done it... but you have to recognize the big risk that would have been to try and save the sinking ship.

Perhaps, you would have to think that Ainge wanted Smart. But I just remembered that trade discussion so we’ll because so many people were vehemently against it. I felt like everyone was overvaluing our players compared to different types of players. Smart wasn’t the only player we talked about. There many iterations of many different incoming and outgoing players without picks involved. If we made moves before the season, I actually think we could have been the team receiving the pick. But the franchise was too set on the roster they had. I have a hard time believing that we couldn’t trade any of our offense only players for a more defensive or utility focused player.

And I don’t mean to put this all on Ainge either. I think the incumbent FO is probably more responsible for the trade deadline than Ainge even though he had already joined the org. Obviously he’s not on the bill for anything before he got here. The inaction would align with the inaction they had with years.

Regardless of who was truly making the decisions….it was really bad to not rearrange more of the pieces. Some combination of overvaluing the existing players and guarding the future caused that. The latter is understandable, but I don’t think a pick needed to be on the table to make a change.

 

[KqWIN]

If that deal was on the table Ainge would've jumped on it. I'm guessing the Celtics would've wanted a pick along with Bogey.

Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

 

[LogGrad98]

I want to go on the record to say that the new "uniforms" will go down as a dismal failure and become a laughing stock in the league. Horrible stuff.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

I think you are misremembering but no way I'm going to look it up... I'd say it was much closer to 50/50 on a Smart for Bogey deal. A few folks were hung up on Smart being a guard iirc.

I'm 99% sure if that deal was there Ainge jumps at it.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Perhaps, you would have to think that Ainge wanted Smart. But I just remembered that trade discussion so we’ll because so many people were vehemently against it. I felt like everyone was overvaluing our players compared to different types of players. Smart wasn’t the only player we talked about. There many iterations of many different incoming and outgoing players without picks involved. If we made moves before the season, I actually think we could have been the team receiving the pick. But the franchise was too set on the roster they had. I have a hard time believing that we couldn’t trade any of our offense only players for a more defensive or utility focused player.

And I don’t mean to put this all on Ainge either. I think the incumbent FO is probably more responsible for the trade deadline than Ainge even though he had already joined the org. Obviously he’s not on the bill for anything before he got here. The inaction would align with the inaction they had with years.

Regardless of who was truly making the decisions….it was really bad to not rearrange more of the pieces. Some combination of overvaluing the existing players and guarding the future caused that. The latter is understandable, but I don’t think a pick needed to be on the table to make a change.

I think once the Favs trade happened our ability to improve the roster was significantly hamstrung. DL could have done more. JZ famously had a deal lined up for Joe and Quin said nah. Once Ainge got in I think there were very few sacred cows... I think he tried like hell to get something that would change things up... and the market said no. Simple as that.

Even like a Thad Young deal would have been hard to do with the assets we had to work with. Trading like for like almost certainly means you need a third team to work with you... very few if any trades happen where we swap a win now piece for a different win now piece. You mentioned a potential Royce to Nets deal... would have been basically impossible with the timing of the Harden trade. So having a mediocre asset like Keon Johnson and some second rounders plus an owner willing to spend into infinity was quite a bit more than we could put on the table. They also wanted no pieces that would help them win more last season. White went for a first and a far out swap... would have been tough to say our unprotected 2018 first should go in a deal like that... and may not have been the best offer.

I don't see the evidence that suggests they didn't try, try hard enough, or try everything... I just think they couldn't find a deal with the very limited resources they had.

 

[Jingled]

Maybe….but I don’t think that’s the deal we were discussing way back when. People simply did not want Smart for Bogey. There’s was just a general hesitation to trade any of our offense only players for someone different. I don’t think we needed to get even value back….we so desperately needed a different skill set.

I wasn't talking about the fans or the posters on this board, I was talking about Ainge...I 100% believe that if Ainge could've swapped Bogey for Smart strait up, he would've done it in a heartbeat.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I wasn't talking about the fans or the posters on this board, I was talking about Ainge...I 100% believe that if Ainge could've swapped Bogey for Smart strait up, he would've done it in a heartbeat.

We were the couple on House Hunters that wants the beachfront condo in Hawaii with 3 bedrooms and nice amenities but only had $200k to spend.