Planned Parenthood Selling Baby Organs

[Archie Moses]

I don't fault people for valuing life and wanting to protect it, nor typically would I mock them for this (unless they were some fanatical nut job), but what I've learned myself from this thread, and observation of this debate, is that pro-life folks tend to have a very, very strong reluctance to acknowledge that the pro-choice side has a principle-based aversion to empowering the state (abbetted and enabled by its conservative Christian allies) to impose its will on the most private, intimate choices that a woman makes about her own body and reproductive choice. It would be useful if we could have some meeting in the middle and go from there, but, alas, this rarely happens with such an emotionally charged issue.

I would add that, once again, social conservatives are fighting a losing battle. Similar to other key issues related to expansion of rights and freedoms which social/religious conservatives have opposed (e.g., civil rights, gay rights, women's rights), they are on the losing side of history and are now relegated to fighting a rear-guard action.

Except, I've acknowledge your issue a bunch of times throughout the thread.

 

[Archie Moses]

You also have a tiny dick. Man, the things you can learn on JF!

It's still attached to balls, bro.

 

[Archie Moses]

But scientifically speaking, did it begin when Howantler's decided to preach to us all from his white studded mount, or when Framer rolled up in his jacked up deisel blasting Metallica's "Holier than thou"? Personally, I believe the thread was considered sentient the moment Archie decided to go after Moe, just because she's a Bulls fan and voted for Blogoyovitch (or whatever his name was).

Actually, I went after her because she is an inferior woman and I don't take no orders from no woman.

 

[fishonjazz]

I just don't think that prohibiting abortions is going to stop abortions, plain and simple.
.

Yep
Make abortions illegal and only the criminals will have abortions.

 

[Archie Moses]

I just don't think that prohibiting abortions is going to stop abortions, plain and simple.

I think it's much more important to look at, and address the social factors that are leading to the ballooning abortion rates. This is the real problem. America needs a revamped sex Ed curriculum mandated nation-wide (or at least necessitate that every state has one), and the socioeconomic factors that lead to abortion in certain communities need to be addressed.

Your first paragraph is beyond stupid. haha, jk - But seriously, I'm not. Please, do ask why.

Your second paragraph you totally redeemed yourself and well put.

 

[moevillini]

I just don't think that prohibiting abortions is going to stop abortions, plain and simple.

I think it's much more important to look at, and address the social factors that are leading to the ballooning abortion rates. This is the real problem. America needs a revamped sex Ed curriculum mandated nation-wide (or at least necessitate that every state has one), and the socioeconomic factors that lead to abortion in certain communities need to be addressed.

Your first statement is very true. But the second? Ballooning abortion rates? Where do you get that idea? It's actually been going down, partly due to restricted access but also in large part due to lower rates of pregnancy at all ages.

https://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2014/02/03/

2008–2011 Decline Spans Almost All States, Suggesting State-level Restrictions Are Not the Cause

Early Medication Abortion Makes Up an Increasing Proportion of All Abortions

The U.S. abortion rate declined to 16.9 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 in 2011, well below the 1981 peak of 29.3 per 1,000 and the lowest since 1973 (16.3 per 1,000), according to "Abortion Incidence and Service Availability in the United States, 2011," by Rachel Jones and Jenna Jerman. Between 2008 and 2011, the abortion rate fell 13%, resuming the long-term downward trend that had stalled between 2005 and 2008….

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/american-abortion-rate-decline/395960/

American women are having significantly fewer abortions than in the past. Since 2010, the Associated Press recently reported, the number of abortions nationwide has decreased by about 12 percent. This decline has been happening, slowly and steadily, for a quarter of a century: Since 1990, the rate of abortions has fallen by more than a third, and the raw number of abortions has fallen by more than half….

...restrictions have made it more difficult for some women to get abortions, particularly women who live long distances from clinics and can’t afford childcare or multiple days off from work. But the restrictions also don’t fully explain the nationwide drop in the number of abortions. Five of the six states with the biggest decline in abortion rates “have passed no recent laws to restrict abortion clinics or providers,” the AP found.

Another explanation could be that the need for abortions has gone down. One important aspect of this is the decline in teen pregnancies. In 2010, teen pregnancy reached its lowest point in 30 years, and between 2002 and 2011, the rate of abortions among girls aged 15-19 decreased by 34 percent, according to the CDC. Over the last decade, teen pregnancy has “dropped off precipitously in a way that’s pretty amazing in terms of public-health outcomes,” said Mara Gandal-Powers, a lawyer at the National Women’s Law Center. “We know that’s because teens are, one, using contraception more and, two, using multiple methods of contraception at the same time.”...

just listened to a very interesting podcast on this issue, I'll edit in the link if I can find it. I thought it was balanced in showing various viewpoints, and in trying to find a way to make discussion of the issue less divisive.

here's a LINK to the podcast episode - panelists include ethicists, professors (one from Fordham University, a Catholic institution) and others
https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/secret-recordings-ignite-new-abortion-debate

 

[Deleted member 848]

Your first statement is very true. But the second?

Your first paragraph is beyond stupid. haha, jk - But seriously, I'm not. Please, do ask why.

Your second paragraph you totally redeemed yourself and well put.

Awesome.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Your first statement is very true. But the second? Ballooning abortion rates? Where do you get that idea? It's actually been going down, partly due to restricted access but also in large part due to lower rates of pregnancy at all ages.

https://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2014/02/03/



https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/american-abortion-rate-decline/395960/



just listened to a very interesting podcast on this issue, I'll edit in the link if I can find it. I thought it was balanced in showing various viewpoints, and in trying to find a way to make discussion of the issue less divisive.

here's a LINK to the podcast episode - panelists include ethicists, professors (one from Fordham University, a Catholic institution) and others
https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/secret-recordings-ignite-new-abortion-debate

Sorry Moe! 'Ballooning' was a poor choice of word-- I should have said 'ballooned', as I was speaking relatively to other regions of the world where pro-choice legistlations are mandated, and access to abortions is funded.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61786-8/fulltext

It's quite clear that regions within countries with no access to abortions have higher abortion rates (a category the US sometimes falls under).

 

[Stoked]

Sorry Moe! 'Ballooning' was a poor choice of word-- I should have said 'ballooned', as I was speaking relatively to other regions of the world where pro-choice legistlations are mandated, and access to abortions is funded.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61786-8/fulltext

It's quite clear that regions within countries with no access to abortions have higher abortion rates (a category the US sometimes falls under).

America is the only region that matters.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Your first statement is very true. But the second? Ballooning abortion rates? Where do you get that idea? It's actually been going down, partly due to restricted access but also in large part due to lower rates of pregnancy at all ages.

https://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2014/02/03/



https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/american-abortion-rate-decline/395960/



just listened to a very interesting podcast on this issue, I'll edit in the link if I can find it. I thought it was balanced in showing various viewpoints, and in trying to find a way to make discussion of the issue less divisive.

here's a LINK to the podcast episode - panelists include ethicists, professors (one from Fordham University, a Catholic institution) and others
https://www.kcrw.com/news-culture/shows/to-the-point/secret-recordings-ignite-new-abortion-debate

Sorry Moe! 'Ballooning' was a poor choice of word-- I should have said 'ballooned', as I was speaking relatively to other regions of the world where pro-choice legistlations are mandated, and access to abortions is funded.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61786-8/fulltext

It's quite clear that regions within countries with no access to abortions have higher abortion rates (a category the US sometimes falls under).

 

[babe]

Abstinence only sex ed is the only true option.

I imagine you might mean this , say, as the simple consequence of following the logic of a set of realities, but I don't think it really works out like that. Imposing some standard education on people will produce rebels unless we medicate the water or lobotomize or something, making educational measures actually effective.

I think we have to just accept individual decisions, but maybe use some good standards in teaching personal decision-making, and live with the variance in outcomes as the price of individual freedom. That leads to me being in Dal's camp pretty much. I don't think we can really achieve a single version of the method though, and we have to accept the reality of divergent thinking among teaching folks, even parents. Maybe ideas like religious tolerance and freedom will prove to be better than a society driven by ideological or legal or educational imperatives?

It's pretty impossible to create a perfect world with imperfect thinking and free humans. Tolerance will be necessary. Maybe living with freedom means we can't just pass a law to fix everything. As rhetorical or bombastic as I may be, I think the decision is still a personal one, not a legal or political one. Doesn't stop me from trying to tell people we should not put life on a higher priority than convenience.

The world has always been limited by technology and human beliefs. I'm just not ready for government to step in and impose a "final solution" on us.

 

[LogGrad98]

I always found it interesting how some people (not sure if many is correct) who are pro-abortion and full-on contraception availability are against teaching abstinence. They had this come up in Orgeon I think it was (may have been Washington, there in that corner anyway) while we were there, as part of the sex-ed or health curriculum in schools. A group was petitioning to have them add abstinence to the curriculum along with everything else and the venom spewed at them was crazy. Yes most of them had religious backing, but their approach was balanced and fair, they didn't want religion preached just a chapter or paragraph outlining the benefits of abstinence as a contraceptive. Yet as soon as the a-word was mentioned people just went off about not forcing religion down kids' throats and how ridiculous it was to teach abstinence when everyone knew what they needed was free condoms and abortions. It was never suggested to bring religion into it, it was always just assumed. I wondered why can't it be taught as a legitimate contraception too? And I don't know maybe now it is, but we don't have kids going through that until my 13 year old enters high school I guess, so we may be out of the loop. But I always found that crazy.