Please read this! SLC Dunk- Black Lives Matter

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

Okay well this thread happened huh?

I will start with something that shouldn't even be in this thread, Donovan's reaction on social media. I will say something that I say often, people see what they want to see. Those same people upset with him were the same ones upset with him with the Gobert situation and/or worried he was going to leave first chance the gets. Okay done cause that is a stupid topic for this thread.

For the article I do feel the writer, while trying to do and send the right message didn't help himself and kinda undermined his own article. It came across to me that he was talking AT people instead of a way that incites rational thinking and conversation but with this subject that is tough because it can be such an emotionally charged subject.

Also what makes it tough is some people can have legitimate or honest questions about something but because so often racists of any kind will use subterfuge to derail real helpful conversations that need to happen so we can all move forward. An example of that currently being used is "all lives matter" yes factually that is correct just as is black lives matter is factually correct. HOWEVER a difference is equality, black lives are not and have not been treated equally and that needs to change. There are soo many different examples of these things that try to get people's emotions to detract from the issue or cause at hand it really is frustrating.

Another example in this thread was Kaepernick and kneeling against police brutality and was NOTHING related to the military or disrespecting the flat that it got twisted to and it bugs me that the media is now complaining about this but my question is if they knew why he was truly kneeling then why weren't they helping spread the true message that kept getting undermined? I knew why he was kneeling but honestly was questioning myself if I did after years of hearing the false narratives and had to remind myself that no I wasn't losing my mind. Now I'm not a fan of Kaep but I didn't let that detract from the message of the police brutality against African Americans needs to stop, I wish the media would've given more time to players like Kenny Stills who did a much better job of trying to get that message spread. Kaep may not have been the best messenger to get this movement started but he was made the scapegoat instead of focusing on the true message.

I'm not the best with words and saying what I mean but I'll end with this. These conversations are not always going to be easy but if you try to come from a place of love and knowledge and not one of hate or subterfuge we can get through this together, stronger and better for being more united as a people, a country and as a human race.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

It's BLMtoo not BLMonly

This could be the most informative post in this thread.

I think that often the BLM push appears to be a BLMonly in the eyes of people that respond with ALM. The protests and talk imo don't come across as BLMtoo most of the time. If people could truly hear the BLMtoo story and understand that this is a push to end the unfairness/hate/profiling/racism/whatever we want to call it... to be part of a true equality culture, that would be awesome. Look past the emotion of what's going on and see the heart of why this is happening.

BLMtoo is something I can get behind, that idea.

I can't say I get the impression the BLM movement is really that as a whole yet, but I hope it can get there as far as rhetoric and conversation goes.

Clearly many people in the black community have experienced that their lives don't matter as much the lives of people of a different race and/or ethnicity. Why do they even have to say this or fight for this?

Is it hard for us to agree and say, "Yes, black lives do matter, too."?

I'd do the same for Polynesian lives matter, Latino lives matter, Jew lives matter, Korean lives matter... you name it. It's not that hard to agree and validate that the life of someone hurting does in fact matter... too.

~white guy

 

[JazzGal]

Call me what you want #All lives matter

All lives do not matter if black lives do not matter.

I think this is partly because of the way that BLM as an organization is presented. It only seems to pop up when it's white on black issues, never when it's black on black. The appearance is that they are opportunistic race baiters causing division.

I would love for the BLM organization to actually go out and do positive outreach in communities but their agenda seems more predicated on division than inclusion/unity.

People obviously have little idea about how much the BLM organization actually does in the community. Apparently they only pay attention when they are involved in a crisis like the current ones. https://www.blacklivesmatterutah.com/home.html

Donovan Mitchell is a black man and has experienced things that many of us have not and will never experience. Perhaps we should allow him to feel as he feels about current events. Empathy goes a long way.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I find it sickening that police have targeted black people on many occasions and abused them with unwarranted violence.

Some of the police behavior that's been captured on film can only be described as callous, sadistic and outright homicidal.

This is criminal misconduct and there's no excuse for it.

It's happened enough now to raise serious questions about how some of these psychopaths get put on the streets in a uniform to begin with.

I don't need a catch-phrase to express myself on this issue. Of course, black lives matter. It's a problem that this statement even needs to be asserted in the first place.

 

[DasJazz]

All lives do not matter if black lives do not matter.



People obviously have little idea about how much the BLM organization actually does in the community. Apparently they only pay attention when they are involved in a crisis like the current ones. https://www.blacklivesmatterutah.com/home.html

Donovan Mitchell is a black man and has experienced things that many of us have not and will never experience. Perhaps we should allow him to feel as he feels about current events. Empathy goes a long way.

That was again my point. Whether true or not, you only hear about them when there is a racist position to capitalize on and create more division.

I'm not saying that is there stance in general, just that as portrayed, it usually only seems BLM pops up to capitalize on the potential of a situation that can be turned racial.

As stated earlier, I'd love to see way more coverage of national community outreach by BLM in a more inclusive, unifying manner. Problem is, that doesn't create headlines.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

That was again my point. Whether true or not, you only hear about them when there is a racist position to capitalize on and create more division.

I'm not saying that is there stance in general, just that as portrayed, it usually only seems BLM pops up to capitalize on the potential of a situation that can be turned racial.

As stated earlier, I'd love to see way more coverage of national community outreach by BLM in a more inclusive, unifying manner. Problem is, that doesn't create headlines.

Not sure you are that connected to the human condition tbh. When horrific things happen, people lash out in anger, during times of upheaval, you know like a cop killing a subdued person who at that very moment in question is killed for no reason. BLM does a lot behind the scenes that is considered back page news, so we don’t hear about it. When a mop murders a defenseless black person protests get organized and we hear about it. In BLM defense, I’m betting most of the vandalism and looting were done by people using the situation to take advantage of the situation

the organization is good but run by imperfect people, but that’s the case in all things.

 

[DasJazz]

Not sure you are that connected to the human condition tbh. When horrific things happen, people lash out in anger, during times of upheaval, you know like a cop killing a subdued person who at that very moment in question is killed for no reason. BLM does a lot behind the scenes that is considered back page news, so we don’t hear about it. When a mop murders a defenseless black person protests get organized and we hear about it. In BLM defense, I’m betting most of the vandalism and looting were done by people using the situation to take advantage of the situation

the organization is good but run by imperfect people, but that’s the case in all things.

My main point, which I've clarified at least 3 times now, is that I wish they were in the news for more of the good things like community outreach and not roped into anarchy and riots which soil the name and the cause they are trying to address.

 

[fishonjazz]

My main point, which I've clarified at least 3 times now, is that I wish they were in the news for more of the good things like community outreach and not roped into anarchy and riots which soil the name and the cause they are trying to address.

That's a good thing to wish

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[DasJazz]

That's a good thing to wish

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

And unfortunate that it's not realistic in this world.

 

[Ron Mexico]

You've made my point though by saying "you may not like how some people carry that out."

Those people, are the ones hijacking the movement and making it less impactful because it appears to be more about division than inclusion and coming together as a people.

So why don't you try to make it better?

Do you leave everything that has anything negative. You should be anti American anti jazz against everything for that matter.

Maybe instead of going out of your way to focus on the minor negative things you should focus on the greater good. Or try to help make it better. Or start another organization to help fix the problem.

Or just admit that you don't support the idea behind it.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Context Matters. Saying Black lives matter incites that they didn’t before. Of course they matter, they always have. Isn’t it that pretty clear when I say All lives matter?

look it’s clear we don’t agree on this issue. All I am trying to say is to me the article is racist. Racism is a two way street and as long as we see people as black, white, brown and yellow. There will be racism, in other words we will be divided.

No, seeing color means you're not blind. That doesn't mean you are racist.

Also, no. It's been shown by lots of evidence that black lives matter less in America. This is a society issue that needs to be resolved.

 

[DasJazz]

So why don't you try to make it better?

Do you leave everything that has anything negative. You should be anti American anti jazz against everything for that matter.

Maybe instead of going out of your way to focus on the minor negative things you should focus on the greater good. Or try to help make it better. Or start another organization to help fix the problem.

Or just admit that you don't support the idea behind it.

Well for what it's worth, I've helped change the lives of and employed more than 250 African Americans in the last 6 years who were trying to be successful. I remember each and every one of their names and am proud of each of them for their accomplishments.

What have you done to make change? Nothing? Well, you could just admit that you don't support the idea behind it.

 

[Gameface]

Well for what it's worth, I've helped change the lives of and employed more than 250 African Americans in the last 6 years who were trying to be successful. I remember each and every one of their names and am proud of each of them for their accomplishments.

What have you done to make change? Nothing? Well, you could just admit that you don't support the idea behind it.

I think it's funny that an employer thinks they are helping the people they employ without acknowledging that the employer benefits from the arrangement more than the employee does. Yeah, all us lowly employees need jobs and paychecks. No employer hires extra people just because they are super nice and want to pay people money for services they don't need.

 

[DasJazz]

I think it's funny that an employer thinks they are helping the people they employ without acknowledging that the employer benefits from the arrangement more than the employee does. Yeah, all us lowly employees need jobs and paychecks. No employer hires extra people just because they are super nice and want to pay people money for services they don't need.

If it helps you out, some people like to help others because at one point they were in the same shoes as those people. I've personally worked hard to change people's lives regardless of race and I am proud of that.

It's okay to discount me helping others out though, it furthers your bias and narrative that everyone and everything is racist.

But hey, you do you.

 

[Gameface]

If it helps you out, some people like to help others because at one point they were in the same shoes as those people. I've personally worked hard to change people's lives regardless of race and I am proud of that.

It's okay to discount me helping others out though, it furthers your bias and narrative that everyone and everything is racist.

But hey, you do you.

I never even came close to calling you a racist. Not even close. I also didn't discount you helping people, but I don't consider employing people to be "helping" them. It's a business arrangement in which both parties should benefit. Please don't pat yourself on the back as some sort of philanthropist because you hire people. Capitalism is not charity and it shouldn't be. You, as an employer, should gain more from needing to hire people to make it possible for you to make more money than they should be able to make from you in payroll. If you're paying your employees more than they allow you to increase profits then you'll eventually go out of business. So it's sort of a known deal, the employee works for you for a guaranteed income. It's predictable, stable, and if the employee doesn't like it or has a better opportunity they can take their talents to another employer. But the employer should always be making more money from the work their employees do than they pay those employees. If they don't they are capitalism-ing wrong. So don't pretend you're doing people favors. Don't pat yourself on the back as if you did an act of charity. That's insulting to the people who give their time, their skill and their labor to you for a portion of the money you make off of it.

 

[Deleted member 95]

 

[Deleted member 95]

 

[Deleted member 95]

 

[phippsj]

Context Matters. Saying Black lives matter incites that they didn’t before. Of course they matter, they always have. Isn’t it that pretty clear when I say All lives matter?

look it’s clear we don’t agree on this issue. All I am trying to say is to me the article is racist. Racism is a two way street and as long as we see people as black, white, brown and yellow. There will be racism, in other words we will be divided.

Let’s imagine you have 3 kids. One of them has a bad run at a few relationships, pretty much feels worthless and comes home and says “Dad, do you at least love me?” And you answer “I love all my kids, so that includes you too”.

I get what your trying to say. Problem is over half this country thinks All Lives Matter is at best, insensitive, and more likely racist.

 

[Nate505]

But agreeing with “black lives matter” isn’t a hard concept to grasp regardless.

Like I feel bad for Donovan, he was probably embarrassed, mad, sad, obviously upset enough to change his profile pics from Jazz stuff. Even if it is a small portion of idiots it’s time for them to understand, or drive them out.

Then he'll be driven out. So be it. In an enterprise of hundreds of thousands of people there will always be a handful of dipsticks. Now that there's technology that allows anyone to make their voice heard for basically free, that handful of dipsticks will have their voices heard. Such is life.

The truly intelligent grasp this sort of nuance. Actually that's false because it doesn't take much intelligence to grasp it. The dumb ****s don't. I don't think Mitchell is dumb. In fact, I believe he's rather intelligent.