If I were Snyder and I wanted to make as much money as possible on my next contract, this is exactly the type of response I would give.
Why wouldn't you use other teams wanting you as leverage?
Rumor that Quin could replace Popovich when he retires
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Why wouldn't you use other teams wanting you as leverage?
gomretat
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Spence Checketts commented on the tribune article on his show and made a few comments I thought were interesting (I dont subscribe to the Tribune so I haven't read it). He mentioned that the Lakers are in play for Quinn as well and that since Smith bought the Jazz a lot has changed in the culture and work environment. Some long time employees were let go and some left because they didnt like being there anymore. I would add that the hiring of Ainge is a clear signal of a different culture and different approach to basketball. From the outside the culture and approach seem very different. It would not be a surprise if Quin and/or Zanick want out or will be booted out. I miss the Millers.
Handlogten's Heros
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Yeah Quins comments are great deflection. I think there is a real chance he leaves and there is also a real chance this is a threat that lands him a bigger extension if he stays.
I think there is no doubt JZ bails if he has an equal or greater opportunity… which he should tbh. I actually like JZ and attribute most of his “poor” moves to an owner asking him to cut budget. Couple misses along the way.
gomretat
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Agreed on everything but the budget cut part but we have already gone there. I think Quin or Zanick leaving would be a big loss and this clearly gives Quin leverage. I don't think he will be unemployed very long if Smainge fires him.
Ineptimusprime
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Quin’s been fun, but he’s underachieved in the playoffs and everything about this iteration of the Jazz has run it’s course.
I think this could be mutual, honestly.
I think this could be mutual, honestly.
Handlogten's Heros
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The favs deal was 100% a budget cut deal and it’s not debatable… that was JZ’s worst move.
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So on the Hoop Collective today they had some speculation on the Jazz here. I largely ignore Windhorst but Tim McMahon had some comments and he's pretty clued in. From what I remember:
- There has been speculation on Quin for a little while now... but stuff is now leaking out.
- He has a contract that runs beyond this year but not sure how long.
- Compared it to Bud leaving the Hawks... kinda just running its course.
- Mentioned again that big changes are coming if we fail to get where we need to.
- Also mentioned how Don loves Quin and if the Quin domino drops look out.
I think the order of changes would be a Quin move, Rudy trade, then what? I honestly think that if we are headed that direction that you just go ahead and tear the whole thing down now so that you don't make a lateral move that just delays the rebuild. If you push all the chips into a rebuild it could be a much faster process and have a much better chance at being built the right way.
9 games and a playoff run gonna decide the fate of the franchise for the next 5-7 years.
- There has been speculation on Quin for a little while now... but stuff is now leaking out.
- He has a contract that runs beyond this year but not sure how long.
- Compared it to Bud leaving the Hawks... kinda just running its course.
- Mentioned again that big changes are coming if we fail to get where we need to.
- Also mentioned how Don loves Quin and if the Quin domino drops look out.
I think the order of changes would be a Quin move, Rudy trade, then what? I honestly think that if we are headed that direction that you just go ahead and tear the whole thing down now so that you don't make a lateral move that just delays the rebuild. If you push all the chips into a rebuild it could be a much faster process and have a much better chance at being built the right way.
9 games and a playoff run gonna decide the fate of the franchise for the next 5-7 years.
10 years from now, there are going to be a lot of people in this organization who will realize how close we were and how much we totally squandered this opportunity. It will be like the person who almost invested in _____.
LogGrad98
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Yep. I cashed out my shares of Amazon that I got as signing bonus and from working there in the early days way too soon. Should have just sat on those suckers. But a 300% ROI was good when I cashed it out, but it would be a hell of a lot more than that if I had held it. Oh well. The Corvette was fun while it lasted!
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There are a few failings that I think we can point to...
- Don and Rudy never truly figuring out how to be great teammates.
- Lack of leadership and a tough guy enforcer.
- Quin's lack of adjustments.
- Many stupid fringe moves and salary miscalculations.
Even if we figured out 2 or 3 of those things I'm not sure we ever get where we want.
Unless there is a semi-miraculous change I think dark days are ahead... again... I'd almost prefer they do a full rebuild if they decide to trade Rudy.
LogGrad98
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If they decide to trade Rudy they better get back enough for a big run. Otherwise, if trading only one of them, it might make more sense to move Mitchell. He has higher perceived value and could net some big assets. Good young players, firsts, etc.
But realistically, I think if you move one of them, then you move both. Blow it up and start over.
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I don't think Ryan has the stomach for it. It would look really bad... I don't think he has the stomach to trade the marketable star either. I'm worried the return on a Rudy trade will be pretty meh... then we die a slow death rather than doing a full pivot and raking in premium assets for flipping the switch.
LogGrad98
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Yeah that is the concern. It is also highly likely, unfortunately, imo. They will ride and die with Mitchell before trading him for nickels on the dollar and he will chase a ring elsewhere while we wallow in mediocre assets and a rough rebuild.
Don’t forget that Ainge will head for the exits.
“Well, folks. She’s a fine ship. I think you should go down with it.”
gomretat
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My ramblings:
If you want return on a trade and are going to keep one of the stars Donny brings the most in return. Rudy is the hardest to skill to duplicate but if they blow it up it there is likely a complete change of system and approach coming so maybe that doesn't matter. Right now the center position is more important in our system then any other team in the league but I wonder if that syncs with the way Ainge wants to build his team. That simply means that I believe if we are going to trade one of the stars it will be Rudy. If the rumor mill is true, Ryan includes Donny in all kinds of things so I don't think he will every trade Donny, even though I think Donny will walk as soon as he can.
If you want return on a trade and are going to keep one of the stars Donny brings the most in return. Rudy is the hardest to skill to duplicate but if they blow it up it there is likely a complete change of system and approach coming so maybe that doesn't matter. Right now the center position is more important in our system then any other team in the league but I wonder if that syncs with the way Ainge wants to build his team. That simply means that I believe if we are going to trade one of the stars it will be Rudy. If the rumor mill is true, Ryan includes Donny in all kinds of things so I don't think he will every trade Donny, even though I think Donny will walk as soon as he can.
This really sucks. As disappointing as this team can be at times, at least they're a perennial playoff team with two stars and the best offense in the league...I just don't feel like I can stomach another rebuild. This season feels eerily similar to Jerry and D-Will's final season, only difference is this team is going to implode in the offseason instead of mid-season. I don't feel like I can stomach another rebuild.
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Handlogten's Heros
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It does... and I would be all for figuring it out and giving Don and Rudy another shot with different pieces but it seems like they are consistently not on the same page.
All the folks saying "well shaq and Kobe hated each other and made it work" well Shaq and Kobe were waaaaaayyyy more talented than Rudy and Donovan... so I think they need more synergy than just a tolerable work environment.
If I thought those two would just get over their ******** and actually be friends and play for each other... then lets do it. Or if we had some solid young players coming up then you can either hope they develop or do a pivot type move and be okay. Doing a half step pivot ends in us winning 45ish games next year and Donovan asking out a year later.
I can handle a rebuild if it is intelligent... doesn't mean you won't screw up but if you have a consistent philosophy and stick to it while being semi-competent then it should be successful.
I think everyone here will be fine with the rebuild. If a team is rebuilding, they have the permanent guise of "building" toward a championship even if the championship is incredibly unlikely. Casual fans may leave, but if you're posting on a Jazz forum you're probably going to stick around enjoy a team without expectations more than a team that does. Happiness is about expectations vs reality...if you have no expectations, there's nothing to be unhappy about. If your expectation is that this is a championship contending team but they're not...yeah that's going to disappoint.
I agree that this team is likely to blow up. It's never as good or as bad as it seems, so I'm not overreacting to a bad streak. There's just nothing to suggest that this exact same team except with worse players than last year (no Ingles, Gay not a better player than Niang coming into playoffs) and nearly identical to the year before is going to have different results. It could happen, but I have no reason to believe or have hope that it will. When the inevitable failure comes, might as well change things up. This team will only get worse. Having said that, Ryan Smith and his regime has not been promising at all. Doing all the "bad owner" things from a basketball standpoint.
I think we'll look back and see how badly we messed up the Rudy-Don era. We didn't put a single roster around them that wasn't incredibly imbalanced. I don't think there's a good team with a more obvious issue than ourselves, and all we did was throw 35 year old Rudy Gay at it. The year before we threw Miye Oni at it. The cap moves, missing on late first round picks, even missing on every single one of their MLE's is somewhat reasonable...but the pure neglect for defense is indefensible.
I agree that this team is likely to blow up. It's never as good or as bad as it seems, so I'm not overreacting to a bad streak. There's just nothing to suggest that this exact same team except with worse players than last year (no Ingles, Gay not a better player than Niang coming into playoffs) and nearly identical to the year before is going to have different results. It could happen, but I have no reason to believe or have hope that it will. When the inevitable failure comes, might as well change things up. This team will only get worse. Having said that, Ryan Smith and his regime has not been promising at all. Doing all the "bad owner" things from a basketball standpoint.
I think we'll look back and see how badly we messed up the Rudy-Don era. We didn't put a single roster around them that wasn't incredibly imbalanced. I don't think there's a good team with a more obvious issue than ourselves, and all we did was throw 35 year old Rudy Gay at it. The year before we threw Miye Oni at it. The cap moves, missing on late first round picks, even missing on every single one of their MLE's is somewhat reasonable...but the pure neglect for defense is indefensible.
Ineptimusprime
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I am so ready to embrace a rebuild. Lean in, guys!