SI picks Utes to win PAC12 South.
- Thread starter Chad Feldheimer
- Start date
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Your explanation is completely false. The proof? Because Larry Scott invited BOTH Texas, AND Texas A&M to join the Pac 12. So if the Texas Longhorns already deliver that market, then why did he invite A&M anyway? Clearly, there is more to it than just adding a new tv market. And you yourself said that adding a new tv market isn't the only thing it is based on, so I have no idea why you keep arguing like it is everything that it's based on.
The bottom line is this, and these are indisputable facts:
1: Adding TCU would OFFICIALLY give the Big 12 the Dallas market. None of this "we have fans there so we have that market" crap. It would give them a school in one of the largest markets in the nation.
2: Adding TCU would make up for losing another Texas market when A&M leaves.
3: Adding TCU would give them another great football program, even better than the one they lose when A&M leaves.
4: Adding TCU would renew old rivalries from when TCU was in the same conference as the Big 12 South teams.
5: TCU and Baylor still consider each other to be their biggest rival, and they play a rivalry game every year. Adding TCU would make this a conference game, and free up a non conference game every year.
6: TCU is already in the Big East (starting next year) so they would not be elevated in any way by joining the Big 12.
7: TCU would replace the lost travel partner when A&M leaves.
8: TCU was slated to join the Big 12 anyway at the same time as the rest of the Big 12 South schools, but someone in the Texas Legislature put a stop to it.
You saying there is literally no reason for the Big 12 to add TCU is ridiculous. Check this out:
https://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/colleges/post/_/id/4668551/could-tcu-be-on-brink-of-joining-big-12
There was talk of TCU to the Big 12 last year. And that was BEFORE A&M was leaving a big void to fill in the Texas tv markets, and BEFORE TCU was already in the Big East on an equal recruiting ground with the other Big 12 schools.
Now I am not saying it will happen. I think I have been clear in saying I think TCU would turn down an invitation at this point. But to say it would never even be a consideration for the Big 12 is just absurd.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
It's a trendy pick considering Montana St was the team that started off the season by beating Colorado a few seasons ago. Lost in all of that was the fact that Colorado was probably worse than most top-flight FCS schools that season. Utah may have some question marks, but not nearly enough to allow for such an upset. Plus, Whittingham isn't Dan Hawkins. His team will be ready.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
OK Salty, I know I said I was done, but I just gotta give it one more shot:
Texas Longhorn football IS college football as far as the entire state is concerned and yes that does include the Dallas market. Teams like TCU and Texas A&M coming or going IS NOT going to change that. So honestly try to answer this: Why invite an in-state rival and face a harder time getting recruits from the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? This is one of the biggest reasons Texas and Baylor DO NOT WANT TCU. If they're going to add a few more teams after A&M leaves, why not talk to the likes of BYU, Airforce, Louisville, etc? Schools like that would add to the TV market and not be in Texas' back yard in terms of recruiting.
Again, if the Big 12 is going to add schools, they probably want to look out of state. If you're going to have to share TV money with the new schools, why not add TV sets in the process?
Right now the Big 12 shares NO MONEY with TCU. Again, why invite them and start paying them when they bring no added value financially?
Probably very low on the list of factors when the Big 12 talks about adding more teams.
BINGO! And the reason that happened? Texas and Baylor did not want them in there for all of the reasons I've told you about over and over. You're arguing over something that has in fact already happened. As long as Texas and Baylor have a say, I don't see TCU ever getting an invite.
Texas Longhorn football IS college football as far as the entire state is concerned and yes that does include the Dallas market. Teams like TCU and Texas A&M coming or going IS NOT going to change that. So honestly try to answer this: Why invite an in-state rival and face a harder time getting recruits from the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? This is one of the biggest reasons Texas and Baylor DO NOT WANT TCU. If they're going to add a few more teams after A&M leaves, why not talk to the likes of BYU, Airforce, Louisville, etc? Schools like that would add to the TV market and not be in Texas' back yard in terms of recruiting.
Again, if the Big 12 is going to add schools, they probably want to look out of state. If you're going to have to share TV money with the new schools, why not add TV sets in the process?
Adding a "great" football program is not going to be the Big 12's first concern. The conference is teetering on not even existing a few years from now. Now is a crucial time for the Big 12 to expand it's footprint as well convincing Texas it's where they want to be long term. Sometimes business decisions take precedent over getting the best possible football program. A perfect example is Colorado getting an invite to the Pac 12 despite their football program being in shambles.
As long as the Texas-OU rivalry is alive and well, the Big 12 probably isn't too concerned with restoring old rivalries with TCU. Texas and Texas A&M have already stated they'll continue playing each other if A&M leaves. Rivalries will continue even if conference foes change. Utah-BYU being a perfect example.
6: TCU is already in the Big East (starting next year) so they would not be elevated in any way by joining the Big 12.
Right now the Big 12 shares NO MONEY with TCU. Again, why invite them and start paying them when they bring no added value financially?
Probably very low on the list of factors when the Big 12 talks about adding more teams.
BINGO! And the reason that happened? Texas and Baylor did not want them in there for all of the reasons I've told you about over and over. You're arguing over something that has in fact already happened. As long as Texas and Baylor have a say, I don't see TCU ever getting an invite.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
Texas Longhorn football may very well BE college football in Texas, but that doesn't mean they won't get a bigger tv contract by adding a huge market like Dallas. You're off your rocker if you don't think A&M leaving hurts the Big 12. Not really much I can tell you if you refuse to acknowledge that A&M leaving absolutely DOES hurt the big 12. Just take a look at any college sports news and you'll see A&M leaving is the reason the Big 12 might collapse. It not only hurts the Big 12, it might actually kill the Big 12. And it doesn't hurt recruiting to invite them like you keep saying, because TCU can already recruit as a BCS school. Not only that, but they are a BCS school in a conference that isn't on the verge of collapsing. And even more, they are the best football program in their BCS conference. So TCU can recruit by telling kids they are not only in a BCS conference, but they will be favored to win that conference every year. Your argument that they don't want to "elevate" TCU due to recruiting is absurd. TCU is already in a better situation and would probably decline their invitation. The Big 12 is definitely not an elevation for them.
Adding the Dallas market adds lots of tv sets. Yes, I know they can claim that Texas has a lot of fans there anyway. That's not the same thing as having a top notch football program in that actual market. Look at it this way- now that TCU is in a BCS conference, and probably the best football program in that conference, Texas won't be able to claim they own that market for too much longer.
another perfect example is Nebraska getting an invite to the Big 10, and Mizzou getting rejected. TV sets are not everything. And again, TCU is in one of the largest media markets in the nation anyway. They absolutely do add tv sets.
Maybe so, but the conference will still have a game every year that needs to be made up. A high quality program like TCU wold be good for the quality of the conference. And at the same time, it's an easy travel destination, and a team that has some history with the Big 12 teams.
They bring at least as much value (if not more) than the team they would be replacing. The Big 12 DOES share money with A&M right now. They would stop sharing money with them, and instead start sharing it with TCU. They are going to have to start sharing it with someone. TCU has a bigger media market than any team you are suggesting. I don't know when the Big 12 tv contract is up, but you can bet if TCU is playing in BCS games every year, that Dallas market will be a valuable asset for the Big East. The Big 12 can't claim that market forever without a team there. Maybe they could if TCU sucked or was in a mid major conference or something. But if TCU is playing in a BCS game every year, that Dallas market will indisputable belong to the Big East and TCU.
Probably. But still a factor, no doubt.
I don't see anything, anywhere, that suggests Texas or Baylor are trying to keep TCU out. Some Texas legislator was a TCU hater back in the day, that's why TCU isn't in the Big 12 right now. Baylor has played them every year the whole time, so I doubt they are trying to keep them out. Adding them to the conference would free up an out of conference game for a crappy team that they could beat. And besides, if A&M had not joined the Big 12 back in the day, TCU would have probably been in back then. Remember, it's all about Texas controlling everything. They told the Pac 10 they wouldn't come without A&M, Tech, and Baylor. They lose some control if they don't have as many teams in their grasp. A&M does not want to be under their control anymore so they are leaving. TCU would be a perfect replacement, in just about every way. They are in the state of Texas, so Texas legislators could impose their will, they are not far from A&M so the scheduling and travelling doesn't skip a beat, they are in a major media market (even bigger than A&M's) so they help out there as well, and they are a very good and nationally respected football program so they help the credibility of the Big 12. It's a perfect fit, and you can bet they would already be there if A&M had not joined back in 1995.
But, again, TCU is already in a better situation so I doubt this happens.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Or it could just be my pick cause ya know, I go to Montana State. Nothing trendy about it, we're gonna kick you azz. We even have a black quarterback!
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
There are black people in Montana?
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
No, we bring them in from Texas, California...you know states like that. We prefer to have them here for 4-5 years and then kindly kick them out of our state. Shows you how much we value our football though!
You do realize that you are mired in a futile endeavor, don't you?
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
I finally figured it out and moved on. No sense debating with somebody who knows everything about everything.
SaltyDawg
Well-Known Member
You're the one assuming you know everything about everything. At least there were some rumors to support my position (including interviews with TCU's coach). Your stance was basically "It's this way because I say it is and if you don't agree then you're an idiot."