Stars Off the Schneid

Discussion in 'Utah Jazz' started by homeytennis, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    I think the tools are intriguing... I think I’m not looking for awesome defensively... just more effective than Niang and I think he’d give us that.

    The thing that intrigued me on him in the preseason is he stood up Giannis a couple times on defense. That power wing type is going to be something we need in the playoffs. Now that we are out of options on the trade market that’s something I’d like to see us start prepping for.
     
  2. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    I think we are too rigid sometimes... plan was to let him work in the g league all year regardless of performance... I think you need to get guys out to test them a bit.
     
  3. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    I think the Jazz are wondering which JB they will get. The Superman of last night who was a human wrecking ball or the JB that had nine turnovers in a game.
     
  4. idiot

    idiot Well-Known Member

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    Not saying that it's impossible that you're right; I like Brantley's tools too. But Niang had better D-rating with Stars than Brantley has, despite Niang's Stars teams being far worse at defense overall than Brantley's is this year.

    I just think Jazz fans (including many on this board) have had a tendency to over-rate Brantley's likely impact this year based on his tools/potential, and haven't looked closely enough at his actual play.
     
  5. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Don't read too much into defensive rating... defense is too noisy to use catch all type measures. Kanter has the same defensive rating as Rudy does this year... just an example.

    I think we do over-rate the unknown... I just think his length and activity are better than Georges defensive IQ. I guess I'd just like to see... let's give it a try for 5 games.
     
  6. idiot

    idiot Well-Known Member

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    Generally, I agree that d-rating is a poor measure. In particular, it is too team-dependent. Good defensive teams end up giving poor defenders good ratings, and poor defensive teams end up giving good defenders poor ratings. The measure is also too position-dependent (favors bigs over smalls).

    But none of this typical bias works to justify Brantley here. Niang and Brantley play basically the same position. Brantley belongs to a much better defensive team with the Stars than Niang ever did, yet his defensive rating is both absolutely worse than Niang's was and relatively worse (Niang's was always near team-best, Brantley is near team-worst).

    Again, it's not impossible that despite this all, Brantley could perform better for the Jazz defensively than Niang has. But I don't think the odds are on his side (at least not yet, until he's developed a little more). I think the expectation that "anyone has to be better than Niang" is both understandable and wrong.
     
  7. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    Actually the Stars are really good defensively when they have their top players there this year.
     
  8. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    A guy that played for Texas vs the Stars last night, Moises Brown, appeared for the Blazers tonight vs the Pels. He is a rookie with one year at UCLA.
     
  9. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    Stars lost by a lot to the Lakers JVs and the Stars played with 8 players. JWF and Brantley were the only players with Jazz ties to play for the Stars. No NWG, Willie Reed, Oni, Tucker, Morgan, Collinsworth, Pryor or Paul White. Benlevi had 29, Brantley 25 and Bluiett with 20 for the Stars. Haas had 15 rebounds and Mike Scott had 7 assists. JWF shot a lot and didn't make a lot. The Stars were plucky and cut it to 6 with about 4 minutes left but were out of gas. Too much David Stockton and Pierre Jackson for the Lakers. Two former Jazz alums did the Stars in.
     
  10. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    From the Stars Facebook page:
    Fun facts about last night:
    ✅ Malik Benlevi secured a game-high and with 29 points (5 rebounds, 2 assists)
    ✅ Jarrell Brantley posted his 5ᴛʜ consecutive 20-ᴘᴏɪɴᴛ game (25 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists)
    ✅ Isaac Haas grabbed a career high 15 rebounds
     
  11. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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  12. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Oni has started hitting his threes after a slow start... Really like the idea of him as a player. Handles a bit, rebounds, solid defender with some length... if he can hit the spot up three on the regular I think that's a good find and would fit well with the second unit that needs some ball movers. Has some cool highlight dunks where his length and athleticism pop.

    I think Oni, Brantley and Morgan are keepers... would like to see any of them get some regular run with the big boys. Would just like to see what it looks like.
     
  13. whatthe

    whatthe Well-Known Member

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    I am a Oni Homer. But I think he is a late bloomer. If I was his coach, I would help develop all his skills and be smart. But I would make a strong push to help his passing (and dribbling) get even better. It would help him feel great, help the team and as a side effect he will dramatically improve in all areas including shooting. A guy like this you can just plug in at any time and can fit. I hope he becomes an athletic Joe Ingles.
     
  14. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

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    At this point I think it would take massive injury for Brantley to get his first tast of the nba. If the jazz wanted him to get a look see in the nba, it would’ve happened long ago. I think the jazz love his potential and want to bring him along slowly and maybe tighten up his jump shot and handle. I think the soonest we see him is next year.
     
  15. Thee jazz fan

    Thee jazz fan Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a big Oni guy. I just don’t see much there, I would be happy to be wrong, good news is I’m wrong 99.9% of the time:D
     
  16. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    He's a good athlete. He has good tools for a wing. One problem is that he has a hard time changing directions with the ball and he has a limited dribble. His feel for the game is actually better than I thought it would be though. He can be a 3D wing if his shot becomes consistent. He's a straight-line driver.
     
  17. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    Don't think it requires a massive injury... say Niang goes down for a couple weeks... I think Brantley gets some PT in that case.

    I think the plan was to have him in the G League all year to develop and that Niang/Bradley have played well enough that they haven't lost their jobs... I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that if the Jazz wanted a look it would have happened already. I also don't agree with the sentiment thrown around that "lol if these guys were ready they'd be playing". We see it happen all the time.. injury happens, player gets a chance, player performs well and earns the spot. Joe Ingles did this to Rodney Hood a few years ago.

    I think Morgan is likely the most ready, but I'm not sure Brantley will be this high usage playmaking forward in the league... not sure he's getting the type of experience he needs at this point.
     
  18. Handlogten's Heros

    Handlogten's Heros Well-Known Member 2019 Award Winner

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    I think he could be a good blender guy... keeps the ball moving, makes quick decisions and could be a good advantage driver.

    Size and good athleticism... he's a really good prospect.
     
  19. Catchall

    Catchall Well-Known Member 2019 Prediction Contest Winner

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    He could turn out like Kelly Oubre if things go well. He's just got to knock down his shots.
     
  20. homeytennis

    homeytennis Well-Known Member

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    Stars won fairly handily vs Iowa. In a strange game stats wise JWF was the Stars leading rebounder with 9, Brantley their leading assist guy with 5 and Bluiett their leading scorer with 21 and 5-9 from 3. Oni looked good. Haas, JWF, Brantley, Oni and Collinsworth also in double figures. No NWG or Willie Reed as both are still injured.
     

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