The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

[Red]

Why do you care about MV?

I’m there a great deal, and have quite a few friends who live there. So it did get my attention, for that reason alone. Myself, I do live in a very diverse area. I can take a walk down to the river and watch the Hmong families using seine nets to fish, they eat our bait fish, feels like Southeast Asia. Then come home and listen to the Dominican immigrants blasting their music loud enough to rattle my windows. They’re all legal, though, just a ridiculously ethnically diverse state.

Seriously, though, sure I’d like to see a viable solution to the border problem.

The only reason you care is that Gov. DeSantis did it.

Yeah, just about anything DeSantis related will get my attention at this stage. That’s very true. This essay below might have seemed extreme, even to me, until I read it, and realized, yeah, can’t argue too much with that. And, in truth, partly because I was a teacher myself for a time, and really, really value academic freedom, DeSantis’s approach to public education actually concerns me even more than the border problems. So, yeah, off topic to immigration, but DeSantis is a huge problem…

The Nazification of American Education

The crisis of education in the United States presents not only a danger to American democracy, but also the ideological and structural foundations for the emergence of a fascist state. The slide towards lawlessness and authoritarianism is now aided and abetted by educational policies that are...

www.counterpunch.org

 

[One Brow]

There should be zero doubt that border states bear the brunt of this, ...

We should never obviously assume such a thing until we actually examine the numbers.

 

[Bucknutz]

I agree there needs to be a better coordinated effort to respond to the refugees and migrants at the border. I don't see how that gets done without massive funding.

More than just funding. There needs to be an infrastructure and organization, with limits. Open boarder is not working.

What do you mean by "fix it"? Stop the flow of refugees from various criminals, by sending them back to the criminals?

Criminals. I didn’t call anyone criminals. Wow , you’re just as racist as Trump (sarcasm). I just explained it. Pause and restructure. You can’t band-aid all issues.

Immigrants already move through the US. We've provided for them here in the St. Louis area. NYC has more immigrants than any 2 other US cities combined. Texas and Arizona don't have a single city in the top 10 of percentage of immigrants. Florida only has two in the top 10, and by far the largest percentage of them are Cuban (the immigrants we supposedly welcome), making up a third of the overall population.

List of United States cities by foreign-born population - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Miami-Dade County, Florida - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In states overall, Florida is 4th in percent of immigrants (again, half are Cuban, or it would be 16th), Texas is 8th, and Arizona is 14th. They are not bearing a disproportionate share of dealing with the immigrant population. They're just whining about it.

List of U.S. states and territories by immigrant population - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think your stats are off. Not all foreign born people are undocumented boarder crossers. Wiki isn’t the best source of info.
I would use this or another chart based off of data.

Infographic: Where Do Undocumented Immigrants Live in the U.S.?

This chart shows estimates for undocumented immigrant populations in the U.S. in 2017.

www.statista.com

California, Texas and Florida are the ones taking in most immigrants.

When you increase the rate of influx and not the facilities, the result is overflow.

So you’re saying there isn’t an influx at the boarder? From the government:

Southwest Land Border Encounters

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

It’s probably worse than you thought. Doubling in a year…
If that is not an influx, I don’t know what is. NYC with a few thousand, the 3 southern boarder states with hundreds of thousands.

Chicago is paying for the hotels, meals, etc. Texas is just dumping people. You think that's the same thing?

Yep. Texas has facilities and food for immigrants. Probably just not enough for an extra million people.

Again, transferring is not dumping.

Trump vetoed this policy:

Proposal to fly migrants to Florida, other states scrapped after Trump intervenes

A plan by U.S. Customs and Border Protection to potentially fly migrants to other cities fell apart this week after President Donald Trump intervened.

abcnews.go.com

Yes, transferring is dumping, shuffling or what other term you want. If Florida doesn’t want to take on more immigrants, then Biden is dumping them there.

 

[Bucknutz]

I’m there a great deal, and have quite a few friends who live there. So it did get my attention, for that reason alone. Myself, I do live in a very diverse area. I can take a walk down to the river and watch the Hmong families using seine nets to fish, they eat our bait fish, feels like Southeast Asia. Then come home and listen to the Dominican immigrants blasting their music loud enough to rattle my windows. They’re all legal, though, just a ridiculously ethnically diverse state.

Yep, lived in very diverse locations. I love it and feel like it’s the best environment to raise kids.
I served 6 months in Oroville California on a mission in a Hmong ward/branch. Ate some interesting food and had the best time there.

Seriously, though, sure I’d like to see a viable solution to the border problem.

As do I.

Yeah, just about anything DeSantis related will get my attention at this stage. That’s very true. This essay below might have seemed extreme, even to me, until I read it, and realized, yeah, can’t argue too much with that. And, in truth, partly because I was a teacher myself for a time, and really, really value academic freedom, DeSantis’s approach to public education actually concerns me even more than the border problems. So, yeah, off topic to immigration, but DeSantis is a huge problem…

The Nazification of American Education

The crisis of education in the United States presents not only a danger to American democracy, but also the ideological and structural foundations for the emergence of a fascist state. The slide towards lawlessness and authoritarianism is now aided and abetted by educational policies that are...

www.counterpunch.org

CounterPunch Bias and Reliability | Ad Fontes Media

Ad Fontes Media rates CounterPunch, a bi-monthly magazine focused on politics, as hyper-partisan left in terms of bias and mixed reliability in terms ...

adfontesmedia.com

Hyper left partisan, won’t entertain or spend time on that article. Just like I don’t read hyper right partisan nonsense.

 

[Bucknutz]

Illegal immigration has been a continued problem for decades on end. During the Trump admin, Texas, Arizona and Florida still had illegal immigrants coming over the border and they weren't bussed outside of Pence's house or sent elsewhere. It's political games and we all know it and I hate when parties continue to play these games with each other.

It is absolutely a political game. Washington is not serious about this issue. Trump didn’t bus the immigrants to other locations but cities played the sanctuary game and called Trump racist.
The game changed to the right by busing or flying immigrants to these sanctuary locations.
Neither are looking for a solution.

There should be zero doubt that border states bear the brunt of this, but we also shouldn't act like countless admins have done nothing to make legal immigration easier hence why we are where we are. Maybe Washington should actually do something about it for a change vs. pointing the finger.

Easier and limits. We can’t take everyone from everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 365]

What does "fix" the border mean?

Stop immigrants from coming here?
Stop refugees from requesting asylum?
Streamline the immigration process? Issue out more worker visas?
Militarize more/Demilitarize the border?
Build a wall?
Something else???

I think we need to agree first what it means when people say, "fix the border" since that can mean one thing to one person and something completely different to another.

Also, weren't Republicans just bitching like 5 mins ago about human trafficking and the long wait times in the service industry and the high cost of food? How can one be concerned with human trafficking and not be appalled by what Abbott and DeSantis are doing? How can one be angry about the worker shortage our country currently has but also discourage refugees and immigrants from coming here?

I hope we aren't letting white grievance lead our views here on "the border crisis."

 

[One Brow]

More than just funding. There needs to be an infrastructure and organization, with limits. Open boarder is not working.

There is an infrastructure and organization, and we don't have open borders. Porous, perhaps.

Criminals. I didn’t call anyone criminals.

That's who the refugees are fleeing from. What happens to them while we are restructuring?

I think your stats are off. Not all foreign born people are undocumented boarder crossers. Wiki isn’t the best source of info.

I agree. The source for the Wikipedia information is the US Census, but that should be checked against the actual Census figures. The source for the Statista page are "Pew Research Center estimates". With all due respect to the Pew Research Center, I truest the Census more.

Also, I think you have the problem off. Undocumented immigrants are not, for the most part, the ones straining government resources. They come here, they work, they pay taxes (if not always income, then property and sales taxes). DeSantis/Abbott/etc. aren't sending people they don't know abut to other places, they're sending the documented immigrants (refugees, children, etc.).

So you’re saying there isn’t an influx at the boarder?

I believe I just agreed with you above that we need more resources and funding to deal with immigrants. That would be because of the increase. I could have been clearer there.

It’s probably worse than you thought. Doubling in a year…
If that is not an influx, I don’t know what is. NYC with a few thousand, the 3 southern boarder states with hundreds of thousands.

Which are scattered across the US after they enter.

Yep. Texas has facilities and food for immigrants. Probably just not enough for an extra million people.

I have no objection to either getting Texas more resources or Texas coordinating the transfer of people to other states (as opposed to dumping without warning). However, most of that million are asking Texas for help, they're just trying to find work.

Yes, transferring is dumping, shuffling or what other term you want.

Shuffling is also not dumping. If you are providing the money/resources to take care of these people, you're not dumping them.

If Florida doesn’t want to take on more immigrants, then Biden is dumping them there.

Immigrants are being shuffled all over the country.

 

[RandyForRubio]

Semi-fascists on the march. This is what happens after years of fostering conspiracy and hate speech. Of course these fascists think they’re patriots, their god and savior tells them everyday how they’ve been wronged and refuses to admit that Biden won.


View: https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1569864620801753090?s=46&t=sZaChux-4rN2h1awJfltQA

The rhetoric for this, and for a man hiding outside a SC Justice's house with weapons and gear for abduction seem to be different coming from you. I wonder why.

 

[RandyForRubio]

I agree there needs to be a better coordinated effort to respond to the refugees and migrants at the border. I don't see how that gets done without massive funding.


What do you mean by "fix it"? Stop the flow of refugees from various criminals, by sending them back to the criminals?


I think it will be a day of the week that ends in a "y". I've heard these complaints my entire adult life.


Immigrants already move through the US. We've provided for them here in the St. Louis area. NYC has more immigrants than any 2 other US cities combined. Texas and Arizona don't have a single city in the top 10 of percentage of immigrants. Florida only has two in the top 10, and by far the largest percentage of them are Cuban (the immigrants we supposedly welcome), making up a third of the overall population.

List of United States cities by foreign-born population - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Miami-Dade County, Florida - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In states overall, Florida is 4th in percent of immigrants (again, half are Cuban, or it would be 16th), Texas is 8th, and Arizona is 14th. They are not bearing a disproportionate share of dealing with the immigrant population. They're just whining about it.

List of U.S. states and territories by immigrant population - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Again, transferring is not dumping.

That's a nice play on words. When republicans do it, it's dumping. When Biden does it, it's transferring.

Certain states have a border problem that isn't just being ignored, it's being refuted. So they're bringing the problem to those who think everything is fine. Now maybe they'll admit there is a problem, which is the first step to fixing something.

 

[One Brow]

That's a nice play on words. When republicans do it, it's dumping. When Biden does it, it's transferring.

When Republicans coordinate with the place to which the immigrants are being sent, it's transferring (and several Republican governors transfer instead of dump). When Democrats send them without such coordination, it's dumping (I haven't heard of this, but it could be occurring and I don't know it).

Certain states have a border problem that isn't just being ignored, it's being refuted.

Certain other states with a border problem aren't whining in the news every other day about it.

Who are the major politicians publicly saying (or have said in the past two years) there is no border problem?

So they're bringing the problem to those who think everything is fine.

Who, despite the complete lack of cooperation, are dealing w2ith it in a way the whiners hate.

Now maybe they'll admit there is a problem, which is the first step to fixing something.

What does a "fix" look like?

 

[One Brow]

The rhetoric for this, and for a man hiding outside a SC Justice's house with weapons and gear for abduction seem to be different coming from you. I wonder why.

The guy hiding outside the house didn't actually go into it, and he called 911 on himself, IIRC. Do you think that's a relevant difference?

 

[Deleted member 365]

The rhetoric for this, and for a man hiding outside a SC Justice's house with weapons and gear for abduction seem to be different coming from you. I wonder why.

Really? How so?

Could you quote what I said about this man hiding outside of a Supreme Court justice’s house? Was I supportive of this? I’d love to see this/these post/posts.

You wouldn’t be lying, would you? Or do you have me confused with another person in your life? Truly, I’d love to know what you’re alluding to here.