The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

[LogGrad98]

That’s it? No other reason. No other benefit to winning other than money?

That's it. Nothing else. Literally no other reason.

 

[LogGrad98]

Try to incentivize competition because tanking is a thing but so is contenders replete with 30-something year old stars resting their guys a third of the season in preparation for the playoffs.

I know reducing the number of regular season games inextricably reduces revenue, but 82 games a year is seriously stupid. Hurts the product, hurts the competitiveness of each game, and literally hurts the players.

Here’s an idea: make a rule that eliminates back to back games without expanding the duration of the season. Use that to set the number of games (something like 75? IDK, but B2Bs are such an unnecessary risk).

Modern training techniques are likely hurting players. Rest isn't the solution.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Modern training techniques are likely hurting players. Rest isn't the solution.

Eh, the only reason I really buy in to from that video is the style of the game. A more open court with faster, higher jumping athletes is leading to more high impact plays.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Modern training techniques are likely hurting players. Rest isn't the solution.

Did you even watch the video you just linked?

 

[NUMBERICA]

That’s it? No other reason. No other benefit to winning other than money?

I don’t think you’re responding to my post.

 

[LogGrad98]

Did you even watch the video you just linked?

Do you have a point? Or just being an ***?

 

[NUMBERICA]

Do you have a point? Or just being an ***?

I don’t think I’m being an ***. I asked because your synopsis is not the synopsis of the video.

The thing it kept coming back to is that players have too many basketball miles on their bodies at too young an age and that the game is way more stressful on the body than it used to (because it is).

Like anything, I think the answer to the question is not a single answer, but I think the idea that rest won’t help flies in the face of conventional medical wisdom.

In any event, 82 games is too many and B2Bs are the first place to trim down.

 

[ONE LOVE]

Modern training techniques are likely hurting players. Rest isn't the solution.

Nice video, but..

There's conflicting info in there, he had Paul George saying players don't practice enough nowadays.

Then he concluded at the end that there's too much mileage on this generation of players.

So which is the case?

 

[Jaymz]

So I’m going to agree on the points from the long time trainer Tim Grover.

Let me specify a point I think they missed completely.

When all those miles are going on those young bodies, their nervous systems are memorizing the most efficient movement patterns for their bodies.
If they develop bad habits when they are young, over time if not corrected… when they aren’t using the proper muscles or muscle groups to coordinate certain movement patterns this can lead to injuries, muscle compensations, alignment issues, etc.


For instance we all shoe up our feet.
However there are a **** ton of nerves in our feet that help tell our brain to coordinate the proper positioning of our hip, and in turn our spine.

There are a ton of general workouts in today’s main stream. However, the majority of them completely skip ankle strength. As if we don’t even need them.

 

[Jaymz]

Also you do need to lift heavy loads, and increase the loads consistently to increase tendon strength.


Also if you don’t use it, you lose it. Forreal.
This is why I theorize we have the all time Iron Man, John Stockton. He trained his body for endurance. Was always the fastest sprinter and always pushed hardest in practice

 

[LogGrad98]

Nice video, but..

There's conflicting info in there, he had Paul George saying players don't practice enough nowadays.

Then he concluded at the end that there's too much mileage on this generation of players.

So which is the case?

Well the overall point is that we really don't know. He gave his speculation on it at the end, in mileage and the game becoming more dynamic. The guy in the middle speculated not enough things like weight lifting anymore to truly condition the body for impact. To me, overall, the issue lies in modern training techniques that have not adapted to the modern game as effectively as it could be. I think the right lifting part is valid but so is the less practice part. Fact is, extra mileage doesn't explain all of it, but it's a piece of the puzzle, and frankly that is never going to change. So imo training techniques need to change and adapt better to the modern game to prepare players and help them handle the mileage. He has a good point that they don't have time to train for other sports. I played 3 sports in high school, cut it to 2 for my last 2 years, football and basketball. The training for both was very different. Now they become hyper-focused at an earlier age.

The real point is no one knows exactly what's causing it. Or how to fix it. Definitively.

 

[Jaymz]

I’m going to have to disagree. I believe there is plenty of evidence to support all three theories.

To better understand this, check out doctor Andy Galpin and Andrew huberman.


View: https://youtu.be/UIy-WQCZd4M


They source all their information.
This is just 1 of 6 videos. For full comprehension I recommend the whole series.

I was happy to find these guys as to stop taking guesses in the dark.

 

[LogGrad98]

I’m going to have to disagree. I believe there is plenty of evidence to support all three theories.

To better understand this, check out doctor Andy Galpin and Andrew huberman.


View: https://youtu.be/UIy-WQCZd4M


They source all their information.
This is just 1 of 6 videos. For full comprehension I recommend the whole series.

I was happy to find these guys as to stop taking guesses in the dark.

18 hours of video total then? What is the synopsis of their findings?

I agree it is a multitude of factors overall, that is clear. There is no one smoking gun cause or silver bullet to fix it. My take is that with the changes in the game and the extra mileage the players are putting on their bodies, which are not likely to change in any meaningful way, then training needs to be changed or adjusted to help adapt players for that reality, and current training techniques just do not keep up with the changes in the players path to the NBA or the modern game. When you have 3 major factors, and 2 of them simply will not change, then you have to focus on the 3rd, which is training and conditioning.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

18 hours of video total then? What is the synopsis of their findings?

I agree it is a multitude of factors overall, that is clear. There is no one smoking gun cause or silver bullet to fix it. My take is that with the changes in the game and the extra mileage the players are putting on their bodies, which are not likely to change in any meaningful way, then training needs to be changed or adjusted to help adapt players for that reality, and current training techniques just do not keep up with the changes in the players path to the NBA or the modern game. When you have 3 major factors, and 2 of them simply will not change, then you have to focus on the 3rd, which is training and conditioning.

Get rid of defensive 3s violations. Allow hand checking.

The game gets uglier, but there would be less injuries.

 

[Jaymz]

It’s individual based. I agree with the fact that there are more injuries in the NBA today. However, every injury is unique. The most likely factor that the injuries have in common is probably the change in today’s gameplay.

But there are preventative measures and training you can do to not only avoid the injuries, but if the injury occurs, you can significantly reduce the amount of damage done.

Here is a small example on the ankles I was mentioning earlier

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Kvkg4mm0J9o?feature=share

I never see nba players focusing these in workout regimens.
They all seem to be biased in the show off muscles, then with a focus of plyometrics for the jumping.

All In all you’re correct. Dr. Andy talks about how to specify your training regimen to focus on a particular outcome.
Is it for performance? For looks? What are your goals? Then he teaches you how to train for those goals.

 

[LogGrad98]

Get rid of defensive 3s violations. Allow hand checking.

The game gets uglier, but there would be less injuries.

Yes, essentially slow the game down. That directly addresses one of the points that was brought up in the video I posted from jxmy highroller, as well. Slow the game down, reduce the amount and extreme impact of cuts and stops. In essence allow players to play some defense. We have offensive explosions every other night because we have so severely neutered defenses, and so they have to move a lot more since they cannot in any way touch the offensive player. Get back to basic defense and it will slow the game down a bit. Another option would be to move the 3 pt line out a bit, so it is more of a gamble to shoot a 3, then the focus would come more on getting to the rim, tightening up the game bit more, even with longer shots being taken. As they are less efficient overall then the focus moves away from the 3 as much and more to the inside game. Would definitely help to do these kinds of things but I don't see that ever happening, they are just making too much money with more offense. I imagine we will see fouls even get worse as they try to continually amp up the offense.

That is where I said the likelihood of the game slowing down, and of players not focusing on the game from the time they are little kids, will not change. It just won't. The NBA wants the faster high octane game. And kids' parents who see potential in their kids are still going to get them hyper-focused to get into the NBA, because the payoff is just too big to pass up. So the mileage part won't change either. So the last component is either fewer games overall, again highly unlikely, or training, conditioning and practices need to be adapted to give them the best shot they can have to stay healthy despite everything going on around them.

And now they added MORE games with an in-season tournament that is meaningless other than to bring in more revenue, and yet it adds needless extra miles for the players. How ****ing stupid is that? But it is obvious the NBA doesn't care about any of that as long as the product sells, and frankly the players don't either as long as they continue getting the obscene paydays. They are happy to rehab for part of each year, or sit out a high percentage of games, as long as it doesn't cut into their $100 million salaries. We can rail on it all we want but as long as the actual participants, meaning the league, owners, and players, are making money hand over fist regardless of the injury issue, then what incentive do they have to change anything that might even marginally cut into that payday? None. No incentive whatsoever.

Here is something to think about. Guess who this is?






Answer? Greg Oden. Barely played at all, and was even in an era of lower salaries overall, yet he made TWENTY-FOUR MILLION DOLLARS, for his potential. And now, even for a guy in the mid-first round, not even a top pick, that would be dramatically higher. So with paydays like this, even if they have career ending injuries, what incentive is there to do anything different if it means it might be a lower amount. Part of it is the insurance factor against injury, so they still get taken care of, but again, it is a gamble and the money is just too great to worry about missing games as long as the paychecks come and remain obscenely huge. The money is the x-factor in all this, and what really drives it all in the end anyway.



Here is a better one even...




Curtis Borchardt. Still made 5.5 MILLION playing essentially no meaningful games at all. And that was two decades ago. Imagine what it would be now.

 

[Jaymz]

Interesting take.
I don’t know if slowing the game down would cause an immediate change in decline of injuries.

My first immediate thought would be a change in types of injuries.

A lot of elbows were thrown back in the day.

Also more games = more risk of injury

I think perhaps we are still looking at the issue through a microscope, and have tunnel vision. What if there are statistics linked to the injuries that we haven’t accounted for? Emotional states/ game importance/ rivalry, games

Also overuse injuries can be tricky. Too many what ifs involved.
The human body is really adaptive, and should adapt to whatever needs are being challenged.

So there is a fine balance to be met between endurance conditioning and overuse.

 

[LogGrad98]

Interesting take.

I don’t know if slowing the game down would cause an immediate change in decline of injuries.

My first immediate thought would be a change in types of injuries.

A lot of elbows were thrown back in the day

Yeah but as was pointed out in the jxmy highroller video there were far fewer games missed then as well.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

Something to keep an eye out for is that if more stars are getting injured, and now we have a min number of games for NBA awards, and NBA awards are tied to bonuses/raises, then things could get messy. The immediate consequence is a larger number of players are going to be eligible for super max deals.

 

[infection]

But it is obvious the NBA doesn't care about any of that as long as the product sells, and frankly the players don't either as long as they continue getting the obscene paydays.

I wouldn’t care either. When I’ve had my major injuries I got them for free. And my employer wasn’t listing me as “out” or “doubtful” or “questionable,” either.