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The Non-Jazz NBA Thread in the Jazz Section

Kobe took over 27 shots per game in a season. Luka career high is 22 shots per game in a season. Todays game is also faster pace and kobe still leads by a ton in that category. Probably why kobe never won anything. Too much of a ball hog and ball hogs cant win.
 
fishonjazz said:
I know you hate this but........ Go ahead and post his usage vs Luka. Post their iso stats or on ball stats. I watched him play as much as anyone. He ball hogged like a mo fo.
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Thing is, Cy hasnt watched Luka. He has proven it here. That iso crap was hilarious since Luka is way more of a PnR guy.

Also went to check to compare Harden and Luka in PnR vs iso play counts.

Roughly 2:1 ratio, but it goes the opposite way. Harden runs twice as many isos as he does PnRs, and Luka has those numbers the other way around.

But sure. Same player, same iso heavy style.
 
HermanG said:
Thing is, Cy hasnt watched Luka. He has proven it here. That iso crap was hilarious since Luka is way more of a PnR guy.

Also went to check to compare Harden and Luka in PnR vs iso play counts.

Roughly 2:1 ratio, but it goes the opposite way. Harden runs twice as many isos as he does PnRs, and Luka has those numbers the other way around.

But sure. Same player, same iso heavy style.
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I see you have heavily fixated on the word ISO to the point you are ignoring everything else. As I said, ISO is only part of it. If you dont want to actually read and just slobber over Luka's knob go ahead brother.

Also the NBA's cameras play typing is only so accurate. There are PNR plays that are designed to get an isolation that are counted towards being a PNR (that anyone with functioning eyeballs would consider an iso) and other such things that get miscategorized. (also isolation post-ups that are considered postups, but are also functionally isos)
 
HermanG really wants to die on this hill that Luka/Harden aren't similar when they are clearly the two most similar stars in the NBA. From their temperament, playstyle, complaining to the refs, and love of partying.
 
fishonjazz said:
Kobe took over 27 shots per game in a season. Luka career high is 22 shots per game in a season. Todays game is also faster pace and kobe still leads by a ton in that category. Probably why kobe never won anything. Too much of a ball hog and ball hogs cant win.
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Now look at how many shots he took when he won rings genius.

And again, Kobe played this thing called defense.

Funny how yall get so fixated on one little part and act like you figured something out lmao.
 
I understand what Cy is trying to convey and can put it into numbers by taking Usage rate and Assist rate... he ends up using or assisting around like 80% of the possessions when he's on the court. Lebron and others have hovered in the 70s in their title runs.

Yes everything goes through him and its is slightly more than other heliocentric guys... but also he is AMAZING at it and it is a really efficient way to run. Unlike Harden Luka is 6'9" and a better passer... he also has a mid range game... so while he is susceptible to having a bad shooting night and hurting his team... he also has lots of ways to eat that harden didn't if a team shuts off his water or refs are buying the foul grifting.

The dude can also change how he plays slightly. Guys in their first 5 years look and play different in there second 5 years. Luka has had as much success as any young player not named Tim Duncan or Lebron (in the modern era)... maybe just let him cook before declaring him not a championship player.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Now look at how many shots he took when he won rings genius.
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One of the years he won a ring he averaged more shots per game than Luka in any season in his career. The other seasons are about the same as luka. In a slower paced era. lol.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Compared to today’s pace it probably comes out to like 30 shots a game.
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Ya, I thought it was common knowledge that kobe was a ball hog. I guess only to those who watched him play. He was damn good ball hog though and he was ball hogging cause that gave the team the best chance to win.
Jordan was also a ball hog. Just looked up his stats. He took more shots per game in almost every season than luka career high shots per game in a season. In a much much slower pace.
 
Agreed.
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Again this isn't just about shots per game....
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It's also about usage and iso and you digging your heels in so no matter what data is presented to your it won't matter.
 
Sardines said:
Right. One should also consider how much shot clock he had possession of the ball for compared to the rest of the team. It's probably worse than these guys are making it out to be.
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Ya could be. Post the data and let's find out.
I'm guessing he has the ball in hand more than guys like Kobe and LeBron since Luka is a point guard and they are not. I'm guessing he has the ball less than harden did though.
 
32 points, 8 assists and 9 rebounds per game. Dudes like that can't win
 
fishonjazz said:
Ya could be. Post the data and let's find out.
I'm guessing he has the ball in hand more than guys like Kobe and LeBron since Luka is a point guard and they are not. I'm guessing he has the ball less than harden did though.
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I was talking about Kobe. He had the ball in hand A LOT. Everyone on the team like "is Kobe gonna gift me with a pass one time?" as they stand around watching him play like they paid for seats to the game.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
HermanG really wants to die on this hill that Luka/Harden aren't similar when they are clearly the two most similar stars in the NBA. From their temperament, playstyle, complaining to the refs, and love of partying.
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I have never said they arent similar. Dont put words in my mouth. Had you used correct analogies I wouldnt have pushed back.

But I'm still not convinced you have actually watched him that much. The iso comp was so weird since thats more like the separating thing. The way Luka runs iso is much more like SGA does it or Siakam even. He usually runs them from normal formation, drives the defender to the post and uses fake shots, nifty spins and euro steps. Only Hardenesque thing he does is stepbacks from the perimeter and even then I think he does more stepbacks out of PnR like most NBA guards. Harden on the other hand is more about PoA perimeter iso with clear out formations and his primary moves are crossovers, direct drives, pull-ups and stepbacks.

Where he is like Harden (in a negative sense) is that they are both ball hogs and overdribblers. Luka is even worse at that than Harden, who at least has some sense of pace, whereas Luka just kills the momentum quite often. But thats not the comp you chose to make.
 
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