The official "let's impeach Trump" thread


Red

Well-Known Member

Muh State's rights! Oh wait Republicans only believe in that when it comes to abortion.

He has found a good external enemy: California!! Oh wait, they're part of this country.

Trump administration exploring police crackdown on homeless people. And there are many in California, half the total for the US I've read. This seems to be aimed at his base, to rile up his base against Democratic-run cities. It also plays into the urban-rural division long present in our history. I give the bum credit for having a demagogue's instinct for what things will drive up anger among his followers. He's awfully good at what he does, divide Americans against themselves. Almost as if he were a Manchurian candidate and his mission was to do just that...

"Trump further griped about the presence of homeless people while speaking to reporters on Tuesday, saying they live in “our best highways, our best streets, our best entrances to buildings” where people “pay tremendous taxes”. Lucky people. Makes me want to shop for a nice highway underpass.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/17/trump-police-crackdown-homeless-california

Neumann, an attorney with the East Bay Community Law Center, said the threats of a law enforcement crackdown were “consistent with the general approach of the administration – to cause as much pain and suffering as possible to people who are desperately seeking refuge”, adding: “They do it on the border, and now they are proposing to do it in the cities".
 


colton

All Around Nice Guy
Staff member
Silly question, why the prosecutors do not ask that data directly from the IRS?
They did. The IRS refused.

At least in Estonia and probably in EU too an ordinary person can view full audit including profits, dividends, salary etc for any registered company? Some basic data is free, but full audit etc (which might be a lot of A4 pages) costs only some euros.
For example:
https://ariregister.rik.ee/index?lang=eng
And type company name. For example, Philip Morris or Pipedrive.

Doesn't USA have anything like that?
Not sure. Probably not quite that easily... but the key is that people want to view Trump's individual tax statements, not just the Trump Corporation ones. And individual returns are generally protected under privacy laws. Except that there's a law saying that the appropriate congressional committee can request and MUST RECEIVE the tax information for anyone they want to investigate. The IRS is currently violating that law by refusing to turn over Trump's tax returns, which is why they are resorting to trying to get the info a different way.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
They did. The IRS refused.


Not sure. Probably not quite that easily... but the key is that people want to view Trump's individual tax statements, not just the Trump Corporation ones. And individual returns are generally protected under privacy laws. Except that there's a law saying that the appropriate congressional committee can request and MUST RECEIVE the tax information for anyone they want to investigate. The IRS is currently violating that law by refusing to turn over Trump's tax returns, which is why they are resorting to trying to get the info a different way.

Income taxes weren’t always private. In fact, early on in the 1920s and 1930s they were public. It was believed (and perhaps correctly) that if they were made public it would discourage tax fraud. Perhaps this is a debate that needs to be made? Should federal income taxes be private? What are the arguments for and against?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/13/opinion/sunday/taxes-public.html

In Norway, where tax records have been public since the founding of the modern state in 1814, a newspaper put the records online in 2001. One study estimated that the records’ greater availability caused a 3.1 percent increase in the reported incomes of self-employed Norwegians over the next three years, perhaps because they feared exposure.

Disclosure also could help to reduce disparities in income, as well as disparities in tax payments. Inequality is easier to ignore in the absence of evidence. In Finland, where tax data is published each year on Nov. 1 — jovially known as National Jealousy Day — people treat the information as a barometer of whether inequality is yawning too wide.
 

colton

All Around Nice Guy
Staff member
This is crazy. Something extremely odd, dangerous, abusive, and possibly corrupt is going on here by the acting DNI and possibly his superior (Trump? Is there anyone else?). Some quotes from the article, with a few sentences bolded by me:

From https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...schiff-whistleblower-takes-dangerous-new-turn

"The latest development: The Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) has informed Schiff, the California Democrat and chairman of the Intelligence Committee, that he will not forward a whistleblower’s complaint to the committee, as required by law.

Yet the legal rationale for refusing to do this appears specious — and raises further questions as to why this is happening at all.

This all started when Schiff announced that the Inspector General at the ODNI had alerted him to a whistleblower’s complaint that had been submitted to him. Schiff noted that the IG assessed the complaint as “credible.”

But as Schiff noted, the acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, has not forwarded the complaint to the Intelligence Committee.

There is a process for whistleblowers in such situations, one that has been established by federal law. A whistleblower must first submit a complaint to the IG, who determines whether it’s an “urgent concern” and “credible.” If so, the DNI “shall” forward the complaint to the congressional intelligence committees.

The idea here is that this process allows a member of the intelligence community to raise concerns about potential lawbreaking or other abuses with Congress, so it can exercise oversight over those abuses, while ensuring that classified information remains protected. This is done via the independent inspector general at first, insulating the whistleblower against agency-head retaliation, which is also provided for in the statute.

In this case, Schiff announced, the inspector general notified the committee that this whistleblower’s complaint did constitute an urgent concern and is credible — yet Maguire still hadn’t forwarded the complaint and relevant associated materials to the committee.

So Schiff called on the DNI to forward the materials, and if he failed to do that, to appear before Congress on Thursday.

Now Maguire has sent a new letter to Schiff once again refusing to forward the complaint.

...
“The inspector general makes the decision as to whether it’s an urgent concern or not,” [Margaret] Taylor said. “Under the statute as written, the Director of National Intelligence doesn’t have the discretion to not act or get a second opinion. He just has to forward it to the intelligence committees.”

...
Over the weekend, Schiff told CBS News that he’d been informed by Maguire that he was not forwarding the complaint because he is “being instructed not to” by someone “above” him, a “higher authority.” "
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
This is crazy. Something extremely odd, dangerous, abusive, and possibly corrupt is going on here by the acting DNI and possibly his superior (Trump? Is there anyone else?). Some quotes from the article, with a few sentences bolded by me:

From https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...schiff-whistleblower-takes-dangerous-new-turn

"The latest development: The Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) has informed Schiff, the California Democrat and chairman of the Intelligence Committee, that he will not forward a whistleblower’s complaint to the committee, as required by law.

Yet the legal rationale for refusing to do this appears specious — and raises further questions as to why this is happening at all.

This all started when Schiff announced that the Inspector General at the ODNI had alerted him to a whistleblower’s complaint that had been submitted to him. Schiff noted that the IG assessed the complaint as “credible.”

But as Schiff noted, the acting Director of National Intelligence, Joseph Maguire, has not forwarded the complaint to the Intelligence Committee.

There is a process for whistleblowers in such situations, one that has been established by federal law. A whistleblower must first submit a complaint to the IG, who determines whether it’s an “urgent concern” and “credible.” If so, the DNI “shall” forward the complaint to the congressional intelligence committees.

The idea here is that this process allows a member of the intelligence community to raise concerns about potential lawbreaking or other abuses with Congress, so it can exercise oversight over those abuses, while ensuring that classified information remains protected. This is done via the independent inspector general at first, insulating the whistleblower against agency-head retaliation, which is also provided for in the statute.

In this case, Schiff announced, the inspector general notified the committee that this whistleblower’s complaint did constitute an urgent concern and is credible — yet Maguire still hadn’t forwarded the complaint and relevant associated materials to the committee.

So Schiff called on the DNI to forward the materials, and if he failed to do that, to appear before Congress on Thursday.

Now Maguire has sent a new letter to Schiff once again refusing to forward the complaint.

...
“The inspector general makes the decision as to whether it’s an urgent concern or not,” [Margaret] Taylor said. “Under the statute as written, the Director of National Intelligence doesn’t have the discretion to not act or get a second opinion. He just has to forward it to the intelligence committees.”

...
Over the weekend, Schiff told CBS News that he’d been informed by Maguire that he was not forwarding the complaint because he is “being instructed not to” by someone “above” him, a “higher authority.” "

Agreed. This needs to be investigated and taken very seriously.

What mechanism does the house have to further investigate this? Especially since the executive blows off subpoenas almost every day?
 

Zombie

Well-Known Member
...
Over the weekend, Schiff told CBS News that he’d been informed by Maguire that he was not forwarding the complaint because he is “being instructed not to” by someone “above” him, a “higher authority.” "
Complete disregard for congress seems to be a running theme with this administration. Democrats unwillingness to actually put up a fight when running into this phenomenon doesn't seem to be helping at all.
 

Zombie

Well-Known Member
He has found a good external enemy: California!! Oh wait, they're part of this country.

Trump administration exploring police crackdown on homeless people. And there are many in California, half the total for the US I've read. This seems to be aimed at his base, to rile up his base against Democratic-run cities. It also plays into the urban-rural division long present in our history. I give the bum credit for having a demagogue's instinct for what things will drive up anger among his followers. He's awfully good at what he does, divide Americans against themselves. Almost as if he were a Manchurian candidate and his mission was to do just that...

"Trump further griped about the presence of homeless people while speaking to reporters on Tuesday, saying they live in “our best highways, our best streets, our best entrances to buildings” where people “pay tremendous taxes”. Lucky people. Makes me want to shop for a nice highway underpass.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/17/trump-police-crackdown-homeless-california

Neumann, an attorney with the East Bay Community Law Center, said the threats of a law enforcement crackdown were “consistent with the general approach of the administration – to cause as much pain and suffering as possible to people who are desperately seeking refuge”, adding: “They do it on the border, and now they are proposing to do it in the cities".

Don't worry, Trump and company are taking this problem very seriously.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member

I’m sure Pelosi will treat this matter accordingly and go on vacation for the next two months. Upon returning she’ll do another interview with Maureen Dowd throwing AOC under the bus and declare that the public will have their opportunity to impeach trump in November 2020.

Democrats have treated impeachment in the exact same way I sometimes treated home teaching in college. I’d wait until the last day of the month before attempting to contact my families. Then I’d send them a text. After not receiving an immediate response, I’d drop off some cookies. That way I could claim that I “fulfilled my duty” by visiting without actually making any effort to do so. Likewise, Pelosi is scared to actually impeach over fear of a repeat of Gingrich/Clinton. So they’re soft peddling it until Christmas. Then she can declare that it’s too close to the election and that voters can just impeach him in November of 2020.

The problem is that trump is an existential threat. Let’s not beat around the Bush here.

And Democrats will suffer both by refusing to stand up for themselves and by Fox News accusing them of being obstructionists obsessed with impeachment. Really, the only logical option is to immediately impeach. Which is why Democrats won’t do it. Republicans are so much better at this than Democrats.
 
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The Thriller

Well-Known Member

Don't worry, Trump and company are taking this problem very seriously.

Weird. It’s almost like they don’t actually care about helping the homeless and merely care about attacking political opponents. But you can’t question republicans on this, you’ll be labeled as being hateful.

Side note, the gov of California was Married to junior’s girlfriend. She looked so much better before selling her soul to Fox News. I’m sure he gets no pleasure from sticking it to Gov Newsom’s State.


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Zombie

Well-Known Member
Weird. It’s almost like they don’t actually care about helping the homeless and merely care about attacking political opponents. But you can’t question republicans on this, you’ll be labeled as being hateful.

Side note, the gov of California was Married to junior’s girlfriend. She looked so much better before selling her soul to Fox News. I’m sure he gets no pleasure from sticking it to Gov Newsom’s State.


View attachment 8203 View attachment 8202
She looks like she could be his mom in the second photo. Also, why the hell is it so hard for Jr to stand like a normal human? He always looks like he's awkwardly puffing his chest out.
 

The Thriller

Well-Known Member
Ill give it less than 24 hrs before Hannity and company attack this whistleblower as a deep state operative and conditioned republicans will mindlessly repeat whatever trump tweets early tomorrow morning. “Deep state! Witch hunt! The whistleblower is a Democrat who is just angry that Hillary lost! But Obama made promises too! Remember how he said he’d have more flexibility with Medvedev after the election?!”
 

Red

Well-Known Member
This is crazy. Something extremely odd, dangerous, abusive, and possibly corrupt is going on here by the acting DNI and possibly his superior (Trump? Is there anyone else?)


This is killer stuff, and the imagination runs amock, with Trump speaking to several foreign leaders, but looks like the early money is on Kim or Vladimir.
 

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