The official "let's impeach Trump" thread
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Goodness...
when people worry about Trump controlling the narrative, just remember, he’s the best Democratic ad out there. Seriously. We can’t write ads as effective as Trump’s own filthy mouth.
when people worry about Trump controlling the narrative, just remember, he’s the best Democratic ad out there. Seriously. We can’t write ads as effective as Trump’s own filthy mouth.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Lost all respect I had for Hurd. Apparently he sees a future position with this party in a few years and didn’t want to burn too many bridges. Why Would anyone really want to associate with this party? Why would anyone see a future in it? I certainly don’t. Personally, I think the chances of a new party rising from the moderate Democrats and splitting off from the more progressive win is higher than anything coming from the rotten corpse of this white nationalist party. The GOP is increasingly becoming the party of a handful of southern states. Once Arizona, Georgia, and Texas turn blue in the electoral college, the GOP will be shutout of the presidency. Which might actually happen in 2020...
I'm going to self indulgently self-plagiarize since I decided to be active in this thread for some reason. This was my biggest "WTF" of the day in a session full of odd moments.
So a lot has been made of Rep. Loudermilk (R-GA) comparing Trump to Jesus on the floor of the House today, but I think there's a lot in there about Christian identity beyond the obvious blasphemy of comparing Trump to Christ.
Loudermilk started his premise with the phrase "when Jesus was falsely accused of treason," which is a very interesting framing of the trial as it is depicted in the gospels. Jesus was deemed treasonous by the Roman Empire because he actually constituted an existing political threat to Rome. Specifically, the widespread belief that Jesus, through his divine relationship to God, was the "king of the Jews" made him a figure to whom a large percentage of the population owed a higher loyalty than Ceasar. It is actually blasphemous to say that Jesus was "falsely accused" of treason because his status as the savior of all mankind is what truly rendered him an enemy of the state. If he was "falsely accused," that would mean that he was not the son of God at all.
What's interesting about this framing, surely unintentional by Loudermilk, is that it expresses the fundamental modern conflation of Christianity as an identity (here in the actual body of Christ) with persecution and victimhood. It is more important to stress that Jesus was oppressed by the government than to acknowledge that Jesus' actual crime under Roman law was being a figure who threatened the existence of the state by transcending political identity entirely. Even to the point of distorting the Pontius Pilate story in a manner that denies Jesus' divinity.
Early popes tended not to last long. For the first three hundred or so years of the church, they were perpetually being captured, jailed, and killed because worship of Christ fundamentally clashed with Ceasar's claim of exclusive sovereignty. Allegiance to Christ was impermissible even in a society where polytheism was allowed, provided that the State came first. The logic of Christ as political threat is currently completely inverted - now his name is invoked in defense of the primacy of the state and its embodiment in a singular sovereign. Christ's political implication, inherent in his existence as the son of God and savior of all mankind, has been removed entirely.
Christ is dead. Christians killed him.
So a lot has been made of Rep. Loudermilk (R-GA) comparing Trump to Jesus on the floor of the House today, but I think there's a lot in there about Christian identity beyond the obvious blasphemy of comparing Trump to Christ.
Loudermilk started his premise with the phrase "when Jesus was falsely accused of treason," which is a very interesting framing of the trial as it is depicted in the gospels. Jesus was deemed treasonous by the Roman Empire because he actually constituted an existing political threat to Rome. Specifically, the widespread belief that Jesus, through his divine relationship to God, was the "king of the Jews" made him a figure to whom a large percentage of the population owed a higher loyalty than Ceasar. It is actually blasphemous to say that Jesus was "falsely accused" of treason because his status as the savior of all mankind is what truly rendered him an enemy of the state. If he was "falsely accused," that would mean that he was not the son of God at all.
What's interesting about this framing, surely unintentional by Loudermilk, is that it expresses the fundamental modern conflation of Christianity as an identity (here in the actual body of Christ) with persecution and victimhood. It is more important to stress that Jesus was oppressed by the government than to acknowledge that Jesus' actual crime under Roman law was being a figure who threatened the existence of the state by transcending political identity entirely. Even to the point of distorting the Pontius Pilate story in a manner that denies Jesus' divinity.
Early popes tended not to last long. For the first three hundred or so years of the church, they were perpetually being captured, jailed, and killed because worship of Christ fundamentally clashed with Ceasar's claim of exclusive sovereignty. Allegiance to Christ was impermissible even in a society where polytheism was allowed, provided that the State came first. The logic of Christ as political threat is currently completely inverted - now his name is invoked in defense of the primacy of the state and its embodiment in a singular sovereign. Christ's political implication, inherent in his existence as the son of God and savior of all mankind, has been removed entirely.
Christ is dead. Christians killed him.
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
No, man-- not at all. You not seeing a promising future for Republican politicians does not mean one doesn't exist, if we're defining that as being re-elected. The Republican party isn't losing constituents, Thriller-- this process, and Trump & Co.'s bravado throughout, is only emboldening the same segment of our population that voted him into office. He's going to win the next election on their vote if (or when, really, if we're being honest with ourselves) he isn't removed from office. He and his fellow Republicans currently in power have successfully led their voters to feel validated-- that Trump is some sort of bad-*** prize fighter that can absorb any blow because God is strengthening him. We can choose whatever descriptions we like for that large body of conservative Americans, whether we are talking about their education or religion or whatever, but that doesn't make them the minority and our condescending tone does predispose them to remain even more loyal to the officials they elected into office. The bipartisanship and animosity in our country will only continue to grow as long as Democrats and Republicans allow this deep resentment for one another to be cultivated and manipulated, which they will; there are too many lazy citizens who can/will not think for themselves for any sort of new and moderate party to rise up between them. I appreciate your altruism-- I really do-- but the shifts in society required to bring about what you're describing are at least a generation away. All my opinion, of course, and I do hope I'm wrong.
Here's what General McCaffrey has to say about Trump's comment mocking Rep. Debbie Dingell and her deceased husband.
fishonjazz
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Guliani also admitted to quid pro quo in a recent interview.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Trump’s base is a shrinking demographic. It’s dying off, literally. America is becoming less white, more urban, more educated, and less religious. Baby Boomers have already been displaced by millenials as the largest voting bloc in the nation. The GOP is quickly becoming the party of a handful of southern and Midwestern states that are hemorrhaging citizens. What you describe as my “altruism” is actually called “Demographics.” The GOP cannot maintain national relevance without significantly changing.
I know this survey is two years old. But it still paints an accurate picture. This is not a party with a future. Terrible with women and nonwhites. terrible with the college educated. Terrible with young voters.
things are changing... fast. Georgia, Texas, and Arizona are all in play. Hell, Orange County is now solid blue. That would’ve been unheard of just 5-10 years ago. Trump’s mouth is our best campaign ad.
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olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
I hear you-- I'm just not sure it's as cut-and-dried as the numbers on the screen imply. Being a Millenial doesn't guarantee non-affiliation with the Republican party, and not all Trump voters were uneducated Baptists from Alabama. To be clear, I'm basically on your side with this, and personally hope for a political near-future that favors moderate-progressive ideals. I'm not convinced it's happening in dramatic fashion anytime in the next 10 years, though, which is what I'm labeling 'altruistic'. No offense intended!
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Did you see Kentucky and Louisiana electing two Democratic governments a few years ago? I don’t want to speculate about a timetable. I will say we need to look at the evidence. Piebrus ordered an autopsy in 2012 after he was shocked that they lost. The autopsy found that Republicans needed to appeal to minorities and women more in order to remain competitive nationally. Trump has only accelerated the GOP’s decline. Remember, the GOP has only won the popular vote in a presidential election once in the past 30 years.
One Brow
Well-Known Member
1. He was VPOTUS, not POTUS.
2. The Bush administration generally respected American traditions and treaties, such as the autonomy of the Justice Department and NATO.
3. Neither of them fawned over authoritarian leaders exclusively and dissed almost all the democratically elected leaders.
4. Instead of kicking the media lap dog (as Trump does), the Bush administration petted them (overall praise), gave them treats ("exclusive" interviews), and talked sweetly to them.
Trump could have done all of these things while enacting his swamp-filling agenda.
You can find flat-earthers, as well. The presence of kooks doesn't mean Trump is some great guy.
Brilliant political move by Pelosi to delay sending impeachment articles to the Senate. If McConnell and the R's are going to be in cahoots with the White House then let's just draw this out until maybe there is a change of heart or public pressure ratchets up, then Bolton, et al. can testify.
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olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
I don't think Trump consciously understands that people will dehumanize entire populations of fellow human beings they disagree with, but he definitely has an instinct for leveraging it to his advantage, doesn't he? Long live cancel culture.
Red
Well-Known Member
Make the Republicans allow witness testimony.....
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...e-nancy-pelosi-democrats-have-one-ncna1104691
According to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, more than 7 in 10 Americans think top Trump administration officials, such as acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and former national security adviser John Bolton, should be allowed to testify before Congress. That includes 64 percent of Republicans and 72 percent of independents....
....This is one of those rare times when facts, perception and public opinion align. Democrats need to take advantage.
Getting Traded
Banned
I PM'd NDC that he disgusts me for supporting Trump, and he compared me to a person in a mob who would do physical harm to Trump if I had the chance, and that I should look in the mirror. So, herewith is my rebuttal that I sent to him:
You disgust me because you are disingenuous and dishonest and won't admit the faults of the guy you so passionately support. You mean his behavior with Stormy doesn't disgust you or throwing his attorney who bribed her under the bus and sending him to jail, or bribing foreign leaders to do his bidding? It disgusts me that people continue to defend him and lie about what happened. Yes, it disgusts me and I wish he would go away. You're the one who needs to look in the mirror for defending an immoral bully who cares about nothing but his own ego and how much money he claims to have, and the power which he can wield over people. That is truly disgusting and that you enable him, really disgusts me.
You disgust me because you are disingenuous and dishonest and won't admit the faults of the guy you so passionately support. You mean his behavior with Stormy doesn't disgust you or throwing his attorney who bribed her under the bus and sending him to jail, or bribing foreign leaders to do his bidding? It disgusts me that people continue to defend him and lie about what happened. Yes, it disgusts me and I wish he would go away. You're the one who needs to look in the mirror for defending an immoral bully who cares about nothing but his own ego and how much money he claims to have, and the power which he can wield over people. That is truly disgusting and that you enable him, really disgusts me.
It's cool. Even with your overzealous stance on not quite yet even fringe dissertations in medical science, you're still have a step above hack on the **** poster scale.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
Lmao
This is too funny.
Oh man. Jazzfanz. This place is something else.
You guys are great. I consider you my friends.