The *OFFICIAL* Russia Is About To Invade Ukraine Thread

[Red]

It's almost fun to see all the hobgoblins in the "progressive" mind.

Not sure who you are talking to here, but I’m hardly a progressive. I’m sure I would know that by know we’re it true.

You see extremists everywhere.

Hardly…..

Zelensky has outlawed political parties he fears might be pro-Russian even after the horrid invasion, a spectrum of small parties dotting the whole political panopoly of Ukraine, but which add up to more than half the population.

Really?? Half the population is pro-Russian, pro Putin? Lol….

The truth is that a lot of people still just think for themselves. Most people.

Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact.

I’m fine with that fact. Are you? I mean, here I am thinking for myself, per usual, I do, after all, have confidence in my ability to use my mind to effect, and think for myself, and here you are once again simply unable to mind your own business where I am concerned. Why is that? I can’t think for myself without you weighing in? Why is that? Maybe you should learn to live with the fact that not everyone agrees with your points of view?

So, if I voice an opinion, your response should not be to point out most people think for themselves. That’s exactly what I myself am doing. Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact?

And I’m fine with others thinking for themselves. Honestly, it’s you that seems to have the biggest problem with people who think for themselves. My dad was a clinical psychologist. He never brought his work home with him, but one lesson he learned working with people he imparted to me, and it really seems to apply to folks like yourself: the people who complain the most about certain behavior in others are usually the people who are guilty of that very behavior themselves.

 

[leftyjace]

Is it time for me to chime in again and say that putting Babe on ignore has greatly helped me in my efforts to stay sane, and I would highly recommend it?

Disclaimer: Notice I said “efforts”… I am under no illusions that I am able to reliably maintain a modicum of sanity.

 

[Deleted member 365]

@Gameface do you have any expertise on a cruiser’s anti missile defenses? At least, from the american side? What would we be doing if our navy were parked in the Black Sea?

This is interesting. I’d think that Putin and the boys are pretty worried now about their fleet being sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. They seem like they’d be pretty vulnerable to mines, land to water missiles, drones, etc. I’ve seen videos from Ukrainians just taking pictures and videos from their phones of the Russian navy just chillin there. I’m not a military expert but seems risky when so much of the country is still under Ukrainian power.


View: https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1514398732611211271?s=21&t=LkxUC9g-vCb_2ZqWSjcOwg

 

[Gameface]

@Gameface do you have any expertise on a cruiser’s anti missile defenses? At least, from the american side? What would we be doing if our navy were parked in the Black Sea?

This is interesting. I’d think that Putin and the boys are pretty worried now about their fleet being sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. They seem like they’d be pretty vulnerable to mines, land to water missiles, drones, etc. I’ve seen videos from Ukrainians just taking pictures and videos from their phones of the Russian navy just chillin there. I’m not a military expert but seems risky when so much of the country is still under Ukrainian power.


View: https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1514398732611211271?s=21&t=LkxUC9g-vCb_2ZqWSjcOwg

I was only ever on one Navy ship and that was CVN 68 the USS Nimitz. However, defensive shipboard weapon systems is 100% of what I did in the Navy. The same systems I worked on are on all combat ships in the Navy. I worked on Phalanx CIWS (Close-in Weapon System), RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) and indirectly on Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow. Links follow.

Phalanx CIWS

Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

RAM

RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was much younger then and I honestly ached for someone to try to fire a missile at my ship so that we could shoot it down and be heroes. I realize now how dumb that was, regardless, I had an extreme amount of confidence in myself and the people I worked with. Our division had just over 20 people in it but my work center, which was responsible for the RAM systems, had 6-8 people at any given time. I was the work center supervisor, or the POIC (petty officer in charge) of the RAM work center for most of my time on the ship. Before I was the POIC my battle station was at the RAM console in CIC (Combat Information Center) which meant I was the guy that would push the "fire" button to engage a target that was threatening my ship.

In my humble opinion you would have to fire either a concentrated stream raid of guided missiles (look stream raid up) or a couple of hypersonic missiles in order to hit my ship. I was directly involved in testing our defensive capability against hypersonic missiles and I hope we have improved our ability to counter them. As it stands I think the primary defensive measure is distance.

A few missiles fired at my ship, good luck some other time, that **** isn't going to work.

Keep in mind also that I worked on point defense weapon systems. The cruisers and destroyers have AEGIS systems and standard missiles that can engage MUCH further out than the stuff I worked on. Also consider that Navy aircraft is the actual first line of defense for a Navy strike group. So you would have had to peel the onion back pretty far before I would have been needed.

The U.S. Navy isn't a joke. There aren't 5 other navies combined that could even think about messing with the U.S. Navy and at least two of those are very close allies, and they are 2 and 3 on the list.

 

[Gameface]

@Gameface do you have any expertise on a cruiser’s anti missile defenses? At least, from the american side? What would we be doing if our navy were parked in the Black Sea?

This is interesting. I’d think that Putin and the boys are pretty worried now about their fleet being sunk to the bottom of the Black Sea. They seem like they’d be pretty vulnerable to mines, land to water missiles, drones, etc. I’ve seen videos from Ukrainians just taking pictures and videos from their phones of the Russian navy just chillin there. I’m not a military expert but seems risky when so much of the country is still under Ukrainian power.


View: https://twitter.com/ralee85/status/1514398732611211271?s=21&t=LkxUC9g-vCb_2ZqWSjcOwg

Oh **** the Moskva? It translates to Moscow.

Damn, that like the USS Enterprise or the John Paul Jones getting sunk.

That's the most historic modern Russian ship name ever.

 

[Rubashov]

I was only ever on one Navy ship and that was CVN 68 the USS Nimitz. However, defensive shipboard weapon systems is 100% of what I did in the Navy. The same systems I worked on are on all combat ships in the Navy. I worked on Phalanx CIWS (Close-in Weapon System), RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile) and indirectly on Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow. Links follow.

Phalanx CIWS

Phalanx CIWS - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

RAM

RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Evolved NATO Sea Sparrow

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was much younger then and I honestly ached for someone to try to fire a missile at my ship so that we could shoot it down and be heroes. I realize now how dumb that was, regardless, I had an extreme amount of confidence in myself and the people I worked with. Our division had just over 20 people in it but my work center, which was responsible for the RAM systems, had 6-8 people at any given time. I was the work center supervisor, or the POIC (petty officer in charge) of the RAM work center for most of my time on the ship. Before I was the POIC my battle station was at the RAM console in CIC (Combat Information Center) which meant I was the guy that would push the "fire" button to engage a target that was threatening my ship.

In my humble opinion you would have to fire either a concentrated stream raid of guided missiles (look stream raid up) or a couple of hypersonic missiles in order to hit my ship. I was directly involved in testing our defensive capability against hypersonic missiles and I hope we have improved our ability to counter them. As it stands I think the primary defensive measure is distance.

A few missiles fired at my ship, good luck some other time, that **** isn't going to work.

Keep in mind also that I worked on point defense weapon systems. The cruisers and destroyers have AEGIS systems and standard missiles that can engage MUCH further out than the stuff I worked on. Also consider that Navy aircraft is the actual first line of defense for a Navy strike group. So you would have had to peel the onion back pretty far before I would have been needed.

The U.S. Navy isn't a joke. There aren't 5 other navies combined that could even think about messing with the U.S. Navy and at least two of those are very close allies, and they are 2 and 3 on the list.

Aren't Nimitz and Enterprise being scrapped? Proper shame.

 

[lauriandres]

To add what Gameface said and what i gathered from Twitter:

1. Moskva was designed for offense, not defense.
2. It basically had only one detection radar so was able to track only ONE potential flying/floating (theoretical) attacker at one time.
3. Ukraine used one drone as a bait and then attacked with missiles.
4. Moskva was FULL of explosive stuff.
5. And while on paper that ship might have been in good condition - the reality in Russia is what it is. Lots of brutal might, because the value of human life is kind of low.

To Gameface,

While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).

 

[Gameface]

To add what Gameface said and what i gathered from Twitter:

1. Moskva was designed for offense, not defense.
2. It basically had only one detection radar so was able to track only ONE potential flying/floating (theoretical) attacker at one time.
3. Ukraine used one drone as a bait and then attacked with missiles.
4. Moskva was FULL of explosive stuff.
5. And while on paper that ship might have been in good condition - the reality in Russia is what it is. Lots of brutal might, because the value of human life is kind of low.

To Gameface,

While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).

I honestly have no idea if it would have been easy to steal things. Never crossed my mind.

 

[Gameface]

To add what Gameface said and what i gathered from Twitter:

1. Moskva was designed for offense, not defense.
2. It basically had only one detection radar so was able to track only ONE potential flying/floating (theoretical) attacker at one time.
3. Ukraine used one drone as a bait and then attacked with missiles.
4. Moskva was FULL of explosive stuff.
5. And while on paper that ship might have been in good condition - the reality in Russia is what it is. Lots of brutal might, because the value of human life is kind of low.

To Gameface,

While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).

That's some antiquated ****. But I'm a bit confused. Search radar are the ones that spin in a circle and look all around for anything and everything. Fire Control radar points directly at a target and provides very specific positioning info to the Fire Control computer which then determines an intercept point, AKA the Fire Control Solution, and indicates such to the Fire Control tech who then tells the Tactical Action Officer that they have "Birds Affirmed" and he then gives permission to fire or not. When a fire control radar system has a target that what is commonly referred to as being "locked on" or "missile lock."

On AEGIS ships they use a unique phased array radar system that can provide Fire Control quality radar info for well over 100 targets at a time. They can also fire many missiles simultaneously at multiple targets at a time. One AEGIS can even use the radar info from another friendly AEGIS to fire missiles or request to use their missiles to fire on a target they've identified.

It's ridiculous how much better the U.S. Navy is compared to its rivals.

 

[Rubashov]

I honestly have no idea if it would have been easy to steal things. Never crossed my mind.

What the actual ****? You never even thought about stealing? You sicken me. ****ing sailors man, pack of wimps.

While you worked in Navy - was it theoretically easy or difficult to silently steal military stuff? For example, little bit of ammo one day, then next week some food rations, maybe some gallons of fuel or other chemicals and then sell later on a more or less regular or black market?
I guess and i hope, that it was difficult? I.e at least on harbour you had to pass some detectors etc.
Of course, feel free to be as accurate as you want with your answers ;-).

In reality what can he really steal off an aircraft carrier? Its not like you can sick an F-14 in your suitcase. I seriously doubt they're eating caviar and drinking Moet on carriers (well maybe the officers) what's he gonna steal scrabbled eggs and bacon from the mess? That said if you were a grunt marching around Afghanistan, you might be motivated to to pick up a brick of heroin from some village you just shot up. Portable, valuable and easy to sell when you get home.

 

[babe]

Not sure who you are talking to here, but I’m hardly a progressive. I’m sure I would know that by know we’re it true.

Hardly…..

Really?? Half the population is pro-Russian, pro Putin? Lol….

I’m fine with that fact. Are you? I mean, here I am thinking for myself, per usual, I do, after all, have confidence in my ability to use my mind to effect, and think for myself, and here you are once again simply unable to mind your own business where I am concerned. Why is that? I can’t think for myself without you weighing in? Why is that? Maybe you should learn to live with the fact that not everyone agrees with your points of view?

So, if I voice an opinion, your response should not be to point out most people think for themselves. That’s exactly what I myself am doing. Maybe you should just learn to live with that fact?

And I’m fine with others thinking for themselves. Honestly, it’s you that seems to have the biggest problem with people who think for themselves. My dad was a clinical psychologist. He never brought his work home with him, but one lesson he learned working with people he imparted to me, and it really seems to apply to folks like yourself: the people who complain the most about certain behavior in others are usually the people who are guilty of that very behavior themselves.

Didn't mean to make you mad. I thought you would likely view my remarks as complimentary. You rarely expound at great length on the stuff you bring in here, just to say that Trump is bad and Americans are fascists or whatever. Your posts never involve a critical discussion of the material. As an activist with a cause, it's not your part to throw shade on your talking points or sources.

Everyone thinks they do their own thinking. I think it's worthwhile questioning even what I'm thinking.

My analysis of Ukrainian internal society, ethnic and political groupings etc is probably in need of a lot more information. Let's leave it at the reports so far that I've linked, unless you have something better to offer. I refer to the report that in the recent elections in Ukraine, which I only can evaluate in terms of the reports I have, which I linked above, there has been pretty poor voter turnout, something less than 40%. Of that vote, Zelensky got 36% then his people only got 31% in the last election. The Communist parties were outlawed back in 2015. Areas where they were strong were the weakest in reported voting numbers. I think maybe 30%, and maybe most of them ethnic Russians in the east. It appears that voting, for some, might seem scary or something. Maybe there is a view that the elections are just dog and pony shows anyway. It sounds to me like other than the OPFL and Zelensky's party, there's only a few "oligarchic parties" centered on financial or personality figures which mean voters voting for their financial interests, their company or boss.

But anyway, I say all that adds up to Zelensky getting just over 10% of Ukrainians voting for him, and that was slipping. He "won" because he made deals with the corrupt oligarchs in the election whose delegates supported him after the election.

Meanwhile, the good ol' USA is getting a reputation around the world for picking great losers, and losing wars for them.

 

[babe]

Is it time for me to chime in again and say that putting Babe on ignore has greatly helped me in my efforts to stay sane, and I would highly recommend it?

Disclaimer: Notice I said “efforts”… I am under no illusions that I am able to reliably maintain a modicum of sanity.

I consider anyone who has to ignore me in the vain and foolish effort to compose their own sanity very welcome to do that. Otherwise, it would just be the inability to form competent responses with factual information to debunk my nonsense.

A few try to do that, and sometimes I appreciate the information because there was something I just didn't know.