The trade winds are a'blowin'...

[infection]

Correct. If you wanted salary place holders the best example is Bruce Brown in Indiana 2/40m and second year is a team option. Say we couldn't talk Bruce into 2 years and 45-48M cuz he wanted to go a place he fits better. Derrick Jones Jr. was had for a minimum deal. You telling me he wouldn't take 2/20m with the second year as a non-guarantee. The difference between him and John Collins to our record would be very little. That is a much more tradeable contract and even if you need to guarantee the deal at draft time to make a trade... you have that option. You'd have 35M in expiring deals between KO/THT/DJJ. You could keep the cap flexibility or go sign another 8-10M deal (say Jevon Carter or someone of that ilk).

Also, you could have just assume Evan Fournier's deal and taken a few second round picks for your trouble (get the 3% rate premium up front!). That deal is easy to trade this year as well. Play him or don't... doesn't matter. Then you can shop with more space or do the same dance this summer and collect a few more second round picks.

Or you could just go offer a guy like Max Strus 3/60M and that deal is more tradeable... cuz everyone needs that type of player.

An unforced error. It's hard because directionally, independent of anything else, it's moving in a "good" direction. It's like people aggressively paying down their 2.7% mortgage when they've got student loan and credit card debt and you're also opting out of your 401k match. There's nothing wrong with paying down debt. It's overall a good thing. It's great that they're focused on that and it's definitely better than going and blowing that money elsewhere on something that's just throwing it out the window, so yes, throwing it at the 2.7% mortgage is... good... in comparison (to some things). But is it really a good idea?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here we go. Gay was never coming back. We could have used the other 18 million in cap space though to sign some other pieces or take on bad salary for future draft picks. Unfortunately Collins was a poor way to use that space so far. He hasn't been bad but he hasn't been really good either and just doesn't seem to have much of an impact on the court. Ideally I think he is a solid bench big.

If it was a 1 year deal I get it. At 3/80 it was just too much.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If it was a 1 year deal I get it. At 3/80 it was just too much.

You dont think he will opt out on the 3rd? I think he probably will.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You dont think he will opt out on the 3rd? I think he probably will.

Only if he has an offer of like 4/80... so trade $6-7M on an annual basis to lock something in long term. I don't think the player archetype is something sought after and I think its trending away from player like John. I think he is a MLE type guy in 3 years... not sure what that amount will be. Like $15M annually?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Only if he has an offer of like 4/80... so trade $6-7M on an annual basis to lock something in long term. I don't think the player archetype is something sought after and I think its trending away from player like John. I think he is a MLE type guy in 3 years... not sure what that amount will be. Like $15M annually?

Just looked it up MLE would be about $15M in a few years.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The third year option is also another thing that hurts his trade value. Suffer an ACL tear next year and its 2 years of dead money not just one.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Correct. If you wanted salary place holders the best example is Bruce Brown in Indiana 2/40m and second year is a team option. Say we couldn't talk Bruce into 2 years and 45-48M cuz he wanted to go a place he fits better. Derrick Jones Jr. was had for a minimum deal. You telling me he wouldn't take 2/20m with the second year as a non-guarantee. The difference between him and John Collins to our record would be very little. That is a much more tradeable contract and even if you need to guarantee the deal at draft time to make a trade... you have that option. You'd have 35M in expiring deals between KO/THT/DJJ. You could keep the cap flexibility or go sign another 8-10M deal (say Jevon Carter or someone of that ilk).

Also, you could have just assume Evan Fournier's deal and taken a few second round picks for your trouble (get the 3% rate premium up front!). That deal is easy to trade this year as well. Play him or don't... doesn't matter. Then you can shop with more space or do the same dance this summer and collect a few more second round picks.

Or you could just go offer a guy like Max Strus 3/60M and that deal is more tradeable... cuz everyone needs that type of player.

This all sounds good in theory but the guys you mention aren’t better than Collins. You also have to get them to agree to sign up to play for a tanking team.

 

[KqWIN]

I think the 2 point percentage thing is easily explained with our spacing and requiring him to do things he's not great at. I think the defense has always been hit and miss. Not sure how his on/off stuff would be viewed since our team is hot garbage. Individually I think his value has gone up because the 3P shooting is critical to his value in most situations. I just think the upward mobility on his value is like 1-2 second round picks and a contract that might be a little shorter but might be attached to a player who isn't as good? Like its not going to be a first round pick and expiring money. Maybe a first for like Lonzo Ball, but getting out of the Ball deal is the bigger part of the value there.

Outside of a Lavine trade the only one I could think of was maybe Memphis for Adams and Clarke... maybe a couple seconds. Gives them some frontcourt depth and JJJ and John Collins might be interesting?

That's all fine, but when you're at the negotiation table it doesn't really mean much to say "it's not his fault, it's everything around him". It's explainable, but John Collins losing his fastball is not good in any case.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's all fine, but when you're at the negotiation table it doesn't really mean much to say "it's not his fault, it's everything around him". It's explainable, but John Collins losing his fastball is not good in any case.

Right but the potential acquirer would use that to lower the value... secretly they know they think they can fix it. Cue Tobias Meme.

I get what you are saying though.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This all sounds good in theory but the guys you mention aren’t better than Collins. You also have to get them to agree to sign up to play for a tanking team.

I think DJJ is like Kirkland brand Collins. He would take the $10M over $2M. The other routes don't require a player to say yes and they aren't as good as Collins either... but what if we had just rolled with KO and played a traditional backup 5 like Omer? How many more games would we have lost?

If the argument is he is a trade placeholder then we did it wrong. If the argument is they just like John Collins the player and want to make him a long term piece then I get it... I disagree and think we could do better, but I get it.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

FWIW, Collins also seems to be the Jazz's locker room guy, the upbeat, hard-working vet that mentors and encourages the young guys.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do think we need to keep playing Tech and Omer... I think they have a chance to yield more in a trade and would have a wider market than John.