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Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.


The source is the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Please explain what they are lying about:




A housekeeper arriving early to her shift in south Minneapolis was confronted by two hooded teenagers outside her driver’s side window.

One pointed a gun at her head, demanding that she get out, before firing three shots: two ricocheted off the window and a third struck her side-view mirror.

The woman threw her car into reverse, sending the teens fleeing in the stolen car they arrived in, the latest in a series of brazen attempted armed robberies and carjackings in a wave that is stretching across the city. Minneapolis residents are grappling with a triple-digit percentage increase in these crimes, and incidents occurring at all hours, including broad daylight.

“She was completely traumatized,” the woman’s employer, Kathy Higgins Victor, said of the Nov. 27 incident. “It’s just so bold.”

Over the past two months, Minneapolis police have logged more than 125 carjackings in the city, a troubling surge that authorities had largely linked to small groups of marauding teens. But an increasing number of adults have been arrested in recent weeks for the same crime.

Within a one-hour period Saturday morning, police reported three separate carjackings in southeast Minneapolis, including one where an elderly woman was struck on the head. Such attacks are up 537% this month when compared with last November.

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A neighbor’s surveillance camera captured the sound of shots fired as a pair of suspects attempted to carjack a woman in south Minneapolis on Nov. 27.
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“The numbers are staggering,” said police spokesman John Elder. “It defies all civility and any shred of common human decency.”

Police say suspects tend to approach victims on the street, sidewalk or parking lot — often while they’re distracted with routine tasks. A significant number of armed stickups have targeted seniors and unaccompanied women at their vehicles on Minneapolis’ South Side.

MPD didn’t specifically track this type of crime until Sept. 22 because they were so infrequent. Previous cases fell under the larger umbrella of robberies and auto theft. The agency created a new coding system after the summer months yielded an unusually high number of attacks.

A retroactive count by analysts determined that Minneapolis has seen at least 375 carjackings this year — including 17 last week. That overall tally is more than three times higher than 2019.

“These suspects have been known to ask for directions, then rob the victim of a purse, phone or car,” read an MPD crime alert issued last month in the Third Precinct. It advised residents to be aware of their surroundings and carry only essentials.

A city employee fell victim to south Minneapolis carjackers in September, authorities said. Police found her abandoned vehicle only after it later crashed and caught on fire.

Should citizens find themselves targeted, law enforcement advised that sometimes it’s better to hand over material goods rather than risk your own safety.

“People need to know what their abilities are,” Elder said. “A 74-year-old woman trying to duke it out with two 18-year-olds is not a great idea.”

The spree comes amid a nearly unprecedented spike in violent crime, particularly shootings, since the May 25 killing of George Floyd in police custody and the civil unrest that followed.

In November, the toll of people shot this year surpassed 500 in Minneapolis, the most in 15 years. Seventy-nine homicides is the highest count since the mid-1990s, an era when the city earned the grim moniker “Murderapolis.”

From her kitchen window, a Tangletown resident spotted a red sedan roll up on the 300 block of W. Elmwood Place, then lurch to a stop in the middle of the street.

Two boys, thought to be juveniles, got out of the car and approached a woman sitting in her SUV. A bystander captured a dramatic image of the suspects as one raised a gun toward her head. “Get out, get out!” they yelled, according to home surveillance audio obtained by the Star Tribune.

“Despite holding up photos of her young children and pleading for her life, two young men shot her car and the driver’s side window three times,” Higgins Victor recounted Tuesday in an e-mail to the Minneapolis City Council. “By the grace of God, she was not physically harmed.”

Shaken by the incident, neighbors have begun to mobilize on social media, encouraging one another to contact elected leaders before Wednesday night’s truth-in-taxation hearing.

More than 200 people have signed up to speak on the future of policing in the city. A new proposal by a trio of City Council members — including President Lisa Bender, Phillipe Cunningham and Steve Fletcher — would move roughly 5% from MPD to violence prevention, a mental health crisis team and other departments that could help process reports of property damage and parking violations. The change, they said, would reduce officers’ overall workloads and allow them to focus on violent crime.

On Monday, Mayor Jacob Frey held a news conference criticizing that plan as “irresponsible and untenable.” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo warned that the rise in crime wasn’t limited to specific areas.

“Crime is occurring, the shootings, the carjackings, the robberies. They are citywide, they are impacting everyone, and not just one constituency base and not just one neighborhood,” he said.

Some neighbors wondered if the community should invest in a license plate reader to record all incoming vehicle traffic, like Plymouth did last month to help curb mail theft. But that deterrent comes with a price tag of roughly $2,000 a year to operate.

Such attacks hit “too close to home,” said Rick Reuter, who was born and raised in south Minneapolis. “She was extremely lucky.”

His wife, Alicia Reuter, said the shooting makes her fearful about doing basic tasks like getting gas, even during the day.

The couple say they support police reform efforts, particularly in the wake of George Floyd’s killing, but don’t believe fewer officers is the answer. Several like-minded neighbors said that politicization of the issue has stalled any real attempts to curb the violence.

“I am unsettled by the acceptance that carjacking and attempted murder is being normalized as a new way of life in our city,” Higgins Victor wrote. “Police are gone. Criminals are emboldened. City leaders are not working toward common goals.”
So let me say that I have not had time to do an honest review of this issue.

I typically view the world as an incredibly complex place where often dozens, or hundreds, or thousands, or millions of factors can influence outcomes. That is frequently referred to as "nuance" and is often ridiculed by people I attempt to have a discussion with.

You and I have not had a lot of direct conversations. I am entering this with an assumption that you engage in good faith and in an attempt to learn and grow more so than an attempt to "win".

I will do what I can to digest what you've posted and respond. That's not going to happen right now. I appreciate that you've responded with information that is, at the very least, able to be understood and therefore responded to.

I have a weird schedule, please be patient in waiting for my response.
 
So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.
Your sources are lying to you about the facts.

Austin is having normal fluctuations in a very low-crime city:

Seattle defended the police less than two weeks ago:

In New York, some types of crime are down even more, others are up or down less, after the defunding:

I'm not going to go through every city, because you were wrong on the first three.
 
You can read about a criminologist who doubted whether the "Ferguson Effect" was a real thing, and changed his mind after looking at the data, here:
Now you're conflating other things with defunding the police. In Chicago, murders were increasing alongside police budgets.

Murder is one of the crimes least responsive to increased policing.
 
Your sources are lying to you about the facts.

Austin is having normal fluctuations in a very low-crime city:

Seattle defended the police less than two weeks ago:

In New York, some types of crime are down even more, others are up or down less, after the defunding:

I'm not going to go through every city, because you were wrong on the first three.
1. Carjacking is generally defined as a violent crime against a person firstly and a property crime secondly. It usually involves the use of some form of weapon (usually a firearm) and force against unsuspecting victims.
2. As far as I know, COVID in an international pandemic.
3. The murder rate and other violent crimes are up dramatically in the all the cities that are enacting defund the police policies. And only those cities. Cities like Baltimore, Ferguson and Chicago starting enacting these policies in 2014 and 2015 with predictable results. Chicago had 677 homicides in 2019 (pre-Covid) and over 700 so far in 2020.
4. Crime has actually been DOWN over all during the pandemic, and especially in cities that didn't buy into the false narratives like San Diego where crime is down dramatically.

You can read more about how crime is down here:

You can read about a criminologist who doubted whether the "Ferguson Effect" was a real thing, and changed his mind after looking at the data, here:


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Both good posts that seem to contradict each other's claims. Wonder which is more accurate?
 
Both good posts that seem to contradict each other's claims. Wonder which is more accurate?
I'm kind of missing the big contradictions between the two posts. They are more talking past one another than contradicting one another, imho.
 

Woke up today. Read this and I'm still bothered by it. Disturbing. I feel the same way about most of the police shootings in this thread and that happen. Even when I think the shooting is justified, I find it disturbing that a life ended. With my super alt right mentality and as someone who hates guns and reads alt right news (ksl, Yahoo, CNN, Digg) I wish guns would go.

I get they can be used to protect and for hunting, but if people didn't have them, the world would have way less heart ache.

**** guns and **** those that make me hate them.

There are so many things to bitch about. Cops need more training. Simple and something I think/hope we all agree on.

My work is having our global virtual meetings this week (too bad it's not in person cause they're usually lit) and our keynote speaker was Leif Babin. My work sent me a signed copy of his book, Extreme Ownership, who he co authored with Jocko Willnick. Both reading the book and hearing first hand from Leif has been super educational for me.

If I remember correctly, I posted a clip of Jocko Willnick from his podcast on the JRE on here and it wasn't received well (I could be wrong but that's what I vaguely remember.) I think he nailed what police training and expectations should be like. Our police officers have hard, terrible jobs and are easy to blame when they **** up. Their training and continual training is a joke though. YouTube what Jocko recommends - I agree with him and trust his experience over keyboard critics.
 
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Woke up today. Read this and I'm still bothered by it. Disturbing. I feel the same way about most of the police shootings in this thread and that happen. Even when I think the shooting is justified, I find it disturbing that a life ended. With my super alt right mentality and as someone who hates guns and reads alt right news (ksl, Yahoo, CNN, Digg) I wish guns would go. I get they can be used to protect and for hunting, but if people didn't have them, the world would have way less heart ache.

**** guns and **** those that make me hate them.

There are so many things to bitch about. Cops need more training. Simple and something I think/hope we all agree on.

My work is having our global virtual meetings this week (too bad it's not in person cause they're usually lit) and our keynote speaker was Leif Babin. My work sent me a signed copy of his book, Extreme Ownership, who he co authored with Jocko Willnick. Both reading the book and hearing first hand from Leif has been super educational for me.

If I remember correctly, I posted a clip of Jocko Willnick from his podcast on the JRE on here and it wasn't received well (I could be wrong but that's what I vaguely remember.) I think he nailed what police training and expectations should be like. Our police officers have hard, terrible jobs and are easy to blame when they **** up. Their training and continual training is a joke though. YouTube what Jocko recommends - I agree with him and trust his experience over keyboard critics.
Pretty horrible situation.

The article says that around 10% of 911 call involve situations where mental illness is involved. If 1 out of 10 calls have a mental illness component we need teams trained in dealing with mental illness to either take those calls without police or take calls alongside the police and take the lead in situations where mental illness is the primary factor and no one is in immediate danger.
 
Pretty horrible situation.

The article says that around 10% of 911 call involve situations where mental illness is involved. If 1 out of 10 calls have a mental illness component we need teams trained in dealing with mental illness to either take those calls without police or take calls alongside the police and take the lead in situations where mental illness is the primary factor and no one is in immediate danger.
100%

I think most police forces would/could/should receive mental illness training.

I'm also aware that mental illness can be a very hard thing to deal with because, well, the person is mental.



Haven't listened to this in a minute and who knows, I may feel differently about it now. That said, I remember agreeing with a lot of what Jocko says.


Lol at the posters on here that dislike Rogan. You people are missing out or can't differentiate some dude's opinion from reality.

Has Rogan said dumb things? Yes. Does he have great podcasts and guests? Yes. Is he dumb? Not at all. Does he know a lot about a lot and admits he's not an expert? Absolutely.

I'd like to hear how successful/smart those who rip Joe Rogan are on here cause I guarantee they're critical and experts in their own mind while working as blue collared people.
 
Every other industrialized country manages to go without choke holds. I suppose you, Rogan, and Willink think Americans are too stupid for that. Willink is talk about more combat training.

How would you approach it? With a hand shake? What's your experience and where's your evidence that every other industrialized country doesn't do this?

I love you One Brow, but you live in your head and not reality.
 
I'll preface this by saying Jocko is definitely not a hack. I'm quite confident that he would never purposely misrepresent facts.

But I'd love to see the raw data on Jocko's claim at the 22 minute mark that most IAD complaints about cops come from other cops.

I'd think a deeper dive into the data would reveal those complaints are mostly work related grievances - being treated unfairly by your CO, getting injured on the job thru negligence, pay/OT related issues, etc.

I don't believe for a second that many if any of those complaints revolve around police misconduct when it comes to dealing with the public.
Do you have a source that says this is wrong?

I just Googled it.

The more you know.
 
Do you guys know anyone who were ok with George Floyd being murdered? If so, curious as to what they say. Do they condone knees to the neck for 8 minutes?

I know a lot a douches, but haven't met one person who thinks this way, thank gawd.
 
Do you guys know anyone who were ok with George Floyd being murdered? If so, curious as to what they say. Do they condone knees to the neck for 8 minutes?

I know a lot a douches, but haven't met one person who thinks this way, thank gawd.

I got paired up with a guy on the golf course who moved from California to Utah to get away from the CA politics who was trying to tell me the autopsy showed Floyd was already dying due to an overdose of some sort of tranquilizer while he was still in the back of the cop car. That he was at like 400% of the lethal dose and was saying he couldn't breathe before Chauvin even took him out of the car. No idea if any of that is true but he is the only person I've talked to that didn't think Chauvin should be in prison.

He was also trying to convince the group of gigantic Polynesians behind us of this and they were not having it. It was getting very uncomfortable.
 
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