Tough Day To Be In Law Enforcement

[fishonjazz]

So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.


The source is the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Please explain what they are lying about:

'Staggering' surge in violent carjackings continues across Minneapolis

Such attacks were up 537% compared with last November, worrying residents.

www.startribune.com

A housekeeper arriving early to her shift in south Minneapolis was confronted by two hooded teenagers outside her driver’s side window.

One pointed a gun at her head, demanding that she get out, before firing three shots: two ricocheted off the window and a third struck her side-view mirror.

The woman threw her car into reverse, sending the teens fleeing in the stolen car they arrived in, the latest in a series of brazen attempted armed robberies and carjackings in a wave that is stretching across the city. Minneapolis residents are grappling with a triple-digit percentage increase in these crimes, and incidents occurring at all hours, including broad daylight.

“She was completely traumatized,” the woman’s employer, Kathy Higgins Victor, said of the Nov. 27 incident. “It’s just so bold.”

Over the past two months, Minneapolis police have logged more than 125 carjackings in the city, a troubling surge that authorities had largely linked to small groups of marauding teens. But an increasing number of adults have been arrested in recent weeks for the same crime.

Within a one-hour period Saturday morning, police reported three separate carjackings in southeast Minneapolis, including one where an elderly woman was struck on the head. Such attacks are up 537% this month when compared with last November.

A neighbor’s surveillance camera captured the sound of shots fired as a pair of suspects attempted to carjack a woman in south Minneapolis on Nov. 27.
More


“The numbers are staggering,” said police spokesman John Elder. “It defies all civility and any shred of common human decency.”

Police say suspects tend to approach victims on the street, sidewalk or parking lot — often while they’re distracted with routine tasks. A significant number of armed stickups have targeted seniors and unaccompanied women at their vehicles on Minneapolis’ South Side.

MPD didn’t specifically track this type of crime until Sept. 22 because they were so infrequent. Previous cases fell under the larger umbrella of robberies and auto theft. The agency created a new coding system after the summer months yielded an unusually high number of attacks.

A retroactive count by analysts determined that Minneapolis has seen at least 375 carjackings this year — including 17 last week. That overall tally is more than three times higher than 2019.

“These suspects have been known to ask for directions, then rob the victim of a purse, phone or car,” read an MPD crime alert issued last month in the Third Precinct. It advised residents to be aware of their surroundings and carry only essentials.

A city employee fell victim to south Minneapolis carjackers in September, authorities said. Police found her abandoned vehicle only after it later crashed and caught on fire.

Should citizens find themselves targeted, law enforcement advised that sometimes it’s better to hand over material goods rather than risk your own safety.

“People need to know what their abilities are,” Elder said. “A 74-year-old woman trying to duke it out with two 18-year-olds is not a great idea.”

The spree comes amid a nearly unprecedented spike in violent crime, particularly shootings, since the May 25 killing of George Floyd in police custody and the civil unrest that followed.

In November, the toll of people shot this year surpassed 500 in Minneapolis, the most in 15 years. Seventy-nine homicides is the highest count since the mid-1990s, an era when the city earned the grim moniker “Murderapolis.”

From her kitchen window, a Tangletown resident spotted a red sedan roll up on the 300 block of W. Elmwood Place, then lurch to a stop in the middle of the street.

Two boys, thought to be juveniles, got out of the car and approached a woman sitting in her SUV. A bystander captured a dramatic image of the suspects as one raised a gun toward her head. “Get out, get out!” they yelled, according to home surveillance audio obtained by the Star Tribune.

“Despite holding up photos of her young children and pleading for her life, two young men shot her car and the driver’s side window three times,” Higgins Victor recounted Tuesday in an e-mail to the Minneapolis City Council. “By the grace of God, she was not physically harmed.”

Shaken by the incident, neighbors have begun to mobilize on social media, encouraging one another to contact elected leaders before Wednesday night’s truth-in-taxation hearing.

More than 200 people have signed up to speak on the future of policing in the city. A new proposal by a trio of City Council members — including President Lisa Bender, Phillipe Cunningham and Steve Fletcher — would move roughly 5% from MPD to violence prevention, a mental health crisis team and other departments that could help process reports of property damage and parking violations. The change, they said, would reduce officers’ overall workloads and allow them to focus on violent crime.

On Monday, Mayor Jacob Frey held a news conference criticizing that plan as “irresponsible and untenable.” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo warned that the rise in crime wasn’t limited to specific areas.

“Crime is occurring, the shootings, the carjackings, the robberies. They are citywide, they are impacting everyone, and not just one constituency base and not just one neighborhood,” he said.

Some neighbors wondered if the community should invest in a license plate reader to record all incoming vehicle traffic, like Plymouth did last month to help curb mail theft. But that deterrent comes with a price tag of roughly $2,000 a year to operate.

Such attacks hit “too close to home,” said Rick Reuter, who was born and raised in south Minneapolis. “She was extremely lucky.”

His wife, Alicia Reuter, said the shooting makes her fearful about doing basic tasks like getting gas, even during the day.

The couple say they support police reform efforts, particularly in the wake of George Floyd’s killing, but don’t believe fewer officers is the answer. Several like-minded neighbors said that politicization of the issue has stalled any real attempts to curb the violence.

“I am unsettled by the acceptance that carjacking and attempted murder is being normalized as a new way of life in our city,” Higgins Victor wrote. “Police are gone. Criminals are emboldened. City leaders are not working toward common goals.”

I don't think anyone is arguing that carjackings haven't gone up.
I think people are arguing with you about the police department having been defunded as the reason for the increase in carjackings.
I think gameface and onebrow were saying that the police in minneapolis have not had their finding cut.

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[gandalfe]

I don't think anyone is arguing that carjackings haven't gone up.
I think people are arguing with you about the police department having been defunded as the reason for the increase in carjackings.
I think gameface and onebrow were saying that the police in minneapolis have not had their finding cut.

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Honestly, I think people are just broke, angry, frightened, and desperate.

 

[Joncolton]

I don't think anyone is arguing that carjackings haven't gone up.
I think people are arguing with you about the police department having been defunded as the reason for the increase in carjackings.
I think gameface and onebrow were saying that the police in minneapolis have not had their finding cut.

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Technically speaking - it hasn't been cut yet. In reality - they've had over 100 officers resign or retire due to injuries from the riots, with 100 more scheduled to leave in the next couple of months - resulting in an over 20% reduction in their police force. And they have no new recruits signing up to join the police force. There are significantly fewer cops on the street, the criminals know it and are behaving accordingly.

Minneapolis Police Experience Surge of Departures in Aftermath of George Floyd Protests (Published 2020)

The retention and recruitment problems that many police departments have experienced in recent years are especially pronounced after four Minneapolis officers were charged with Mr. Floyd’s death.

www.nytimes.com

 

[fishonjazz]

Technically speaking - it hasn't been cut yet. In reality - they've had over 100 officers resign or retire due to injuries from the riots, with 100 more scheduled to leave in the next couple of months - resulting in an over 20% reduction in their police force. And they have no new recruits signing up to join the police force. There are significantly fewer cops on the street, the criminals know it and are behaving accordingly.

Minneapolis Police Experience Surge of Departures in Aftermath of George Floyd Protests (Published 2020)

The retention and recruitment problems that many police departments have experienced in recent years are especially pronounced after four Minneapolis officers were charged with Mr. Floyd’s death.

www.nytimes.com

Ya I think they should make the job of being a cop better and more desirable. Better education, better training, higher pay, more focused work rather than jack of all trades etc.

Anywho I think what gameface and onebrow were saying is that the carjacking haven't gone up due to something that hasn't happened yet (defunding). I think you seem to agree with them about that based on this post of yours since you say the funding hasn't been cut yet

And for clarification, defunding the police doesn't mean get rid of police it means things like de-militarize them (I don't think tanks and armored vehicles and assault rifles help with carjackings), and have social workers help more with things. Not just take money from cops and get rid of cops.


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[fishonjazz]

Honestly, I think people are just broke, angry, frightened, and desperate.

I think that plays a part as well as what john colton said about cops retiring and people not wanting to be a cop.


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[fishonjazz]

Honestly, I think people are just broke, angry, frightened, and desperate.

To your point: https://www.yahoo.com/news/six-ways...-is-hurting-ordinary-americans-100030650.html

The Japanese government gives subsidies to smaller companies that allow them to pay employees idled by the COVID-19 pandemic up to 100 percent of their normal wages. In the Netherlands, that number is 90 percent. In Germany, it’s 87 percent. In France, it’s 84 percent. In Italy and the United Kingdom, it’s 80 percent. In Canada, it’s 75 percent.

In America, it’s 0 percent.

The chasm between these stats tells a larger tale. While the rest of the world’s developed countries seem determined to keep shielding their citizens from the harshest economic side effects of COVID-19, President Trump and Congress have dawdled, failing so far to agree on further assistance for Americans who are now suffering more than ever.

When the virus first struck the U.S., federal lawmakers approved a dizzying $2.7 trillion relief package, which helped prop up the economy for a while. But now more than 90 percent of that relief has run out, and remaining protections for renters, student borrowers and jobless Americans will expire at the end of this month.

Meanwhile, case counts are soaring as cold weather and holiday traditions tempt people to gather inside. By early January, something like 4,000 Americans could be dying of COVID-19 each day — more than twice the current rate.

The pandemic, in short, has never been worse. Yet Americans have never had less support from Washington.

Politicians have known for months that this perilous moment was looming. In May, House Democrats passed the $3 trillion HEROES Act, but it was never taken up for a vote in the Senate; earlier this fall, a revised $2.2 trillion aid package breezed through the Democratic House. But conflicting political agendas ahead of November’s election prevented House Democrats, Senate Republicans and the Trump White House from settling on a bipartisan solution.

We don’t know if, when or how much additional COVID-19 relief will emerge from Congress. Likely the only measure that can survive the political crosscurrents of this lame-duck session will be some form of partial, short-term relief, which will force Biden, who called Tuesday for a “robust package,” to push for more after he takes office in January — a push that Republicans, who tend to rediscover deficit hawkery under Democratic presidents, may reject.

People are scared, they are broke, they are getting evicted, they are mad, and they are desperate. I think when people are feeling that way and things are going downhill quickly like they currently are crime is likely to go up no matter what is happening in the police force.

 

[Zombie]

So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.


The source is the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Please explain what they are lying about:

'Staggering' surge in violent carjackings continues across Minneapolis

Such attacks were up 537% compared with last November, worrying residents.

www.startribune.com

A housekeeper arriving early to her shift in south Minneapolis was confronted by two hooded teenagers outside her driver’s side window.

One pointed a gun at her head, demanding that she get out, before firing three shots: two ricocheted off the window and a third struck her side-view mirror.

The woman threw her car into reverse, sending the teens fleeing in the stolen car they arrived in, the latest in a series of brazen attempted armed robberies and carjackings in a wave that is stretching across the city. Minneapolis residents are grappling with a triple-digit percentage increase in these crimes, and incidents occurring at all hours, including broad daylight.

“She was completely traumatized,” the woman’s employer, Kathy Higgins Victor, said of the Nov. 27 incident. “It’s just so bold.”

Over the past two months, Minneapolis police have logged more than 125 carjackings in the city, a troubling surge that authorities had largely linked to small groups of marauding teens. But an increasing number of adults have been arrested in recent weeks for the same crime.

Within a one-hour period Saturday morning, police reported three separate carjackings in southeast Minneapolis, including one where an elderly woman was struck on the head. Such attacks are up 537% this month when compared with last November.

A neighbor’s surveillance camera captured the sound of shots fired as a pair of suspects attempted to carjack a woman in south Minneapolis on Nov. 27.
More


“The numbers are staggering,” said police spokesman John Elder. “It defies all civility and any shred of common human decency.”

Police say suspects tend to approach victims on the street, sidewalk or parking lot — often while they’re distracted with routine tasks. A significant number of armed stickups have targeted seniors and unaccompanied women at their vehicles on Minneapolis’ South Side.

MPD didn’t specifically track this type of crime until Sept. 22 because they were so infrequent. Previous cases fell under the larger umbrella of robberies and auto theft. The agency created a new coding system after the summer months yielded an unusually high number of attacks.

A retroactive count by analysts determined that Minneapolis has seen at least 375 carjackings this year — including 17 last week. That overall tally is more than three times higher than 2019.

“These suspects have been known to ask for directions, then rob the victim of a purse, phone or car,” read an MPD crime alert issued last month in the Third Precinct. It advised residents to be aware of their surroundings and carry only essentials.

A city employee fell victim to south Minneapolis carjackers in September, authorities said. Police found her abandoned vehicle only after it later crashed and caught on fire.

Should citizens find themselves targeted, law enforcement advised that sometimes it’s better to hand over material goods rather than risk your own safety.

“People need to know what their abilities are,” Elder said. “A 74-year-old woman trying to duke it out with two 18-year-olds is not a great idea.”

The spree comes amid a nearly unprecedented spike in violent crime, particularly shootings, since the May 25 killing of George Floyd in police custody and the civil unrest that followed.

In November, the toll of people shot this year surpassed 500 in Minneapolis, the most in 15 years. Seventy-nine homicides is the highest count since the mid-1990s, an era when the city earned the grim moniker “Murderapolis.”

From her kitchen window, a Tangletown resident spotted a red sedan roll up on the 300 block of W. Elmwood Place, then lurch to a stop in the middle of the street.

Two boys, thought to be juveniles, got out of the car and approached a woman sitting in her SUV. A bystander captured a dramatic image of the suspects as one raised a gun toward her head. “Get out, get out!” they yelled, according to home surveillance audio obtained by the Star Tribune.

“Despite holding up photos of her young children and pleading for her life, two young men shot her car and the driver’s side window three times,” Higgins Victor recounted Tuesday in an e-mail to the Minneapolis City Council. “By the grace of God, she was not physically harmed.”

Shaken by the incident, neighbors have begun to mobilize on social media, encouraging one another to contact elected leaders before Wednesday night’s truth-in-taxation hearing.

More than 200 people have signed up to speak on the future of policing in the city. A new proposal by a trio of City Council members — including President Lisa Bender, Phillipe Cunningham and Steve Fletcher — would move roughly 5% from MPD to violence prevention, a mental health crisis team and other departments that could help process reports of property damage and parking violations. The change, they said, would reduce officers’ overall workloads and allow them to focus on violent crime.

On Monday, Mayor Jacob Frey held a news conference criticizing that plan as “irresponsible and untenable.” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo warned that the rise in crime wasn’t limited to specific areas.

“Crime is occurring, the shootings, the carjackings, the robberies. They are citywide, they are impacting everyone, and not just one constituency base and not just one neighborhood,” he said.

Some neighbors wondered if the community should invest in a license plate reader to record all incoming vehicle traffic, like Plymouth did last month to help curb mail theft. But that deterrent comes with a price tag of roughly $2,000 a year to operate.

Such attacks hit “too close to home,” said Rick Reuter, who was born and raised in south Minneapolis. “She was extremely lucky.”

His wife, Alicia Reuter, said the shooting makes her fearful about doing basic tasks like getting gas, even during the day.

The couple say they support police reform efforts, particularly in the wake of George Floyd’s killing, but don’t believe fewer officers is the answer. Several like-minded neighbors said that politicization of the issue has stalled any real attempts to curb the violence.

“I am unsettled by the acceptance that carjacking and attempted murder is being normalized as a new way of life in our city,” Higgins Victor wrote. “Police are gone. Criminals are emboldened. City leaders are not working toward common goals.”

Hey I don't know if you noticed but the world kind of fell apart for a lot of people in 2020. There was this pandemic that put a lot of people out of work and basically ****ed the economy. Just something to think about when considering why property crimes increased.

 

[Joncolton]

Hey I don't know if you noticed but the world kind of fell apart for a lot of people in 2020. There was this pandemic that put a lot of people out of work and basically ****ed the economy. Just something to think about when considering why property crimes increased.

1. Carjacking is generally defined as a violent crime against a person firstly and a property crime secondly. It usually involves the use of some form of weapon (usually a firearm) and force against unsuspecting victims.
2. As far as I know, COVID in an international pandemic.
3. The murder rate and other violent crimes are up dramatically in the all the cities that are enacting defund the police policies. And only those cities. Cities like Baltimore, Ferguson and Chicago starting enacting these policies in 2014 and 2015 with predictable results. Chicago had 677 homicides in 2019 (pre-Covid) and over 700 so far in 2020.
4. Crime has actually been DOWN over all during the pandemic, and especially in cities that didn't buy into the false narratives like San Diego where crime is down dramatically.

You can read more about how crime is down here:

You can read about a criminologist who doubted whether the "Ferguson Effect" was a real thing, and changed his mind after looking at the data, here:

The ‘Ferguson Effect’ Is Real, and It’s Hurting Black Americans Most | National Review

Michael Brown’s killing in Ferguson has had terrifying consequences for inner-city murder rates, whether President Obama and left-wing activists like it or not.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The best way to demonstrate the fruits of leftist policy ideas - is to enact them. This is one case, where it hasn't even been 100% enacted and already citizens are facing repercussions. The black neighborhoods that these policies are supposed to "help" are yet again hardest hit - often to the cost of many lives.

What proposals would you suggest to deal with a 537% increase in carjackings?

Or maybe it's a pandemic and people are struggling so they turn to crime

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Imagine posting Tim pool lmfao

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Love when people take any stats from any source without fully evaluating context a d just jump to their desired conclusion

 

[Red]

Carjackings are up in cities across the United States. I doubt there is any real evidence that the trend has anything to do with defunding. That more people are in desperate straights due to the economic effects of the pandemic might be playing a role.....

Carjackings increase in major cities across the US in 2020

More people are falling victim to a rise in a specific type of crime: carjackings.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[One Brow]

The best way to demonstrate the fruits of leftist policy ideas - is to enact them. This is one case, where it hasn't even been 100% enacted

Odd that you think "hasn't even been 100% enacted" is a good description. I mean, it's technically true, as 0.1% is indeed less than 100%, but "hasn't even been" indicates a closer relationship than that. Being ADIC (that's Accurate in Denotation, Inaccurate in Connotation) is not an honest argument style.

To be clear:
1) The emphasis is on the first syllable, AD-ic, and
2) I am not insulting you by comparing you to a p-adic numbers, even though ADIC is pronounced the same way. I would never say you are pretending large differences are small and small differences are large (unless you were, of course).

Naturally, you can't have fruits of policies that did not happen.

What proposals would you suggest to deal with a 537% increase in carjackings?

What makes you think anything can be done? Even in a Covid19 economy, people want money.

 

[Gameface]

So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.


The source is the Minneapolis Star Tribune. Please explain what they are lying about:

'Staggering' surge in violent carjackings continues across Minneapolis

Such attacks were up 537% compared with last November, worrying residents.

www.startribune.com

A housekeeper arriving early to her shift in south Minneapolis was confronted by two hooded teenagers outside her driver’s side window.

One pointed a gun at her head, demanding that she get out, before firing three shots: two ricocheted off the window and a third struck her side-view mirror.

The woman threw her car into reverse, sending the teens fleeing in the stolen car they arrived in, the latest in a series of brazen attempted armed robberies and carjackings in a wave that is stretching across the city. Minneapolis residents are grappling with a triple-digit percentage increase in these crimes, and incidents occurring at all hours, including broad daylight.

“She was completely traumatized,” the woman’s employer, Kathy Higgins Victor, said of the Nov. 27 incident. “It’s just so bold.”

Over the past two months, Minneapolis police have logged more than 125 carjackings in the city, a troubling surge that authorities had largely linked to small groups of marauding teens. But an increasing number of adults have been arrested in recent weeks for the same crime.

Within a one-hour period Saturday morning, police reported three separate carjackings in southeast Minneapolis, including one where an elderly woman was struck on the head. Such attacks are up 537% this month when compared with last November.

A neighbor’s surveillance camera captured the sound of shots fired as a pair of suspects attempted to carjack a woman in south Minneapolis on Nov. 27.
More


“The numbers are staggering,” said police spokesman John Elder. “It defies all civility and any shred of common human decency.”

Police say suspects tend to approach victims on the street, sidewalk or parking lot — often while they’re distracted with routine tasks. A significant number of armed stickups have targeted seniors and unaccompanied women at their vehicles on Minneapolis’ South Side.

MPD didn’t specifically track this type of crime until Sept. 22 because they were so infrequent. Previous cases fell under the larger umbrella of robberies and auto theft. The agency created a new coding system after the summer months yielded an unusually high number of attacks.

A retroactive count by analysts determined that Minneapolis has seen at least 375 carjackings this year — including 17 last week. That overall tally is more than three times higher than 2019.

“These suspects have been known to ask for directions, then rob the victim of a purse, phone or car,” read an MPD crime alert issued last month in the Third Precinct. It advised residents to be aware of their surroundings and carry only essentials.

A city employee fell victim to south Minneapolis carjackers in September, authorities said. Police found her abandoned vehicle only after it later crashed and caught on fire.

Should citizens find themselves targeted, law enforcement advised that sometimes it’s better to hand over material goods rather than risk your own safety.

“People need to know what their abilities are,” Elder said. “A 74-year-old woman trying to duke it out with two 18-year-olds is not a great idea.”

The spree comes amid a nearly unprecedented spike in violent crime, particularly shootings, since the May 25 killing of George Floyd in police custody and the civil unrest that followed.

In November, the toll of people shot this year surpassed 500 in Minneapolis, the most in 15 years. Seventy-nine homicides is the highest count since the mid-1990s, an era when the city earned the grim moniker “Murderapolis.”

From her kitchen window, a Tangletown resident spotted a red sedan roll up on the 300 block of W. Elmwood Place, then lurch to a stop in the middle of the street.

Two boys, thought to be juveniles, got out of the car and approached a woman sitting in her SUV. A bystander captured a dramatic image of the suspects as one raised a gun toward her head. “Get out, get out!” they yelled, according to home surveillance audio obtained by the Star Tribune.

“Despite holding up photos of her young children and pleading for her life, two young men shot her car and the driver’s side window three times,” Higgins Victor recounted Tuesday in an e-mail to the Minneapolis City Council. “By the grace of God, she was not physically harmed.”

Shaken by the incident, neighbors have begun to mobilize on social media, encouraging one another to contact elected leaders before Wednesday night’s truth-in-taxation hearing.

More than 200 people have signed up to speak on the future of policing in the city. A new proposal by a trio of City Council members — including President Lisa Bender, Phillipe Cunningham and Steve Fletcher — would move roughly 5% from MPD to violence prevention, a mental health crisis team and other departments that could help process reports of property damage and parking violations. The change, they said, would reduce officers’ overall workloads and allow them to focus on violent crime.

On Monday, Mayor Jacob Frey held a news conference criticizing that plan as “irresponsible and untenable.” Police Chief Medaria Arradondo warned that the rise in crime wasn’t limited to specific areas.

“Crime is occurring, the shootings, the carjackings, the robberies. They are citywide, they are impacting everyone, and not just one constituency base and not just one neighborhood,” he said.

Some neighbors wondered if the community should invest in a license plate reader to record all incoming vehicle traffic, like Plymouth did last month to help curb mail theft. But that deterrent comes with a price tag of roughly $2,000 a year to operate.

Such attacks hit “too close to home,” said Rick Reuter, who was born and raised in south Minneapolis. “She was extremely lucky.”

His wife, Alicia Reuter, said the shooting makes her fearful about doing basic tasks like getting gas, even during the day.

The couple say they support police reform efforts, particularly in the wake of George Floyd’s killing, but don’t believe fewer officers is the answer. Several like-minded neighbors said that politicization of the issue has stalled any real attempts to curb the violence.

“I am unsettled by the acceptance that carjacking and attempted murder is being normalized as a new way of life in our city,” Higgins Victor wrote. “Police are gone. Criminals are emboldened. City leaders are not working toward common goals.”

So let me say that I have not had time to do an honest review of this issue.

I typically view the world as an incredibly complex place where often dozens, or hundreds, or thousands, or millions of factors can influence outcomes. That is frequently referred to as "nuance" and is often ridiculed by people I attempt to have a discussion with.

You and I have not had a lot of direct conversations. I am entering this with an assumption that you engage in good faith and in an attempt to learn and grow more so than an attempt to "win".

I will do what I can to digest what you've posted and respond. That's not going to happen right now. I appreciate that you've responded with information that is, at the very least, able to be understood and therefore responded to.

I have a weird schedule, please be patient in waiting for my response.

 

[One Brow]

So what exactly are you implying Gameface? That carjackings are up 537% because the city supports the police and hasn't cut their funding? What would you want to see done if you lived there?

You're entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts. The facts are in EVERY city where defunding and scaling back of pro-active law enforcement policies have been enacted the crime rates have exploded, see: Austin, Seattle, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, Portland, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Ferguson.

Your sources are lying to you about the facts.

Austin is having normal fluctuations in a very low-crime city:

Fact-check: Is Austin one of the most dangerous cities in the U.S.?

Dan Patrick: Says that “the city of Austin is a disaster if you haven’t been there. A great city, now one...

www.statesman.com

Seattle defended the police less than two weeks ago:

Seattle cuts, but doesn't ‘defund,’ police budget in 2021

After a summer of protests and a pandemic-induced budget crunch, the city is moving toward a new public safety reality.

crosscut.com

In New York, some types of crime are down even more, others are up or down less, after the defunding:

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

www1.nyc.gov

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for September 2020

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for September 2020

www1.nyc.gov

I'm not going to go through every city, because you were wrong on the first three.

 

[One Brow]

You can read about a criminologist who doubted whether the "Ferguson Effect" was a real thing, and changed his mind after looking at the data, here:

The ‘Ferguson Effect’ Is Real, and It’s Hurting Black Americans Most | National Review

Michael Brown’s killing in Ferguson has had terrifying consequences for inner-city murder rates, whether President Obama and left-wing activists like it or not.

www.nationalreview.com

Now you're conflating other things with defunding the police. In Chicago, murders were increasing alongside police budgets.

Murder is one of the crimes least responsive to increased policing.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Your sources are lying to you about the facts.

Austin is having normal fluctuations in a very low-crime city:

Fact-check: Is Austin one of the most dangerous cities in the U.S.?

Dan Patrick: Says that “the city of Austin is a disaster if you haven’t been there. A great city, now one...

www.statesman.com

Seattle defended the police less than two weeks ago:

Seattle cuts, but doesn't ‘defund,’ police budget in 2021

After a summer of protests and a pandemic-induced budget crunch, the city is moving toward a new public safety reality.

crosscut.com

In New York, some types of crime are down even more, others are up or down less, after the defunding:

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for June 2020

www1.nyc.gov

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for September 2020

NYPD Announces Citywide Crime Statistics for September 2020

www1.nyc.gov

I'm not going to go through every city, because you were wrong on the first three.

1. Carjacking is generally defined as a violent crime against a person firstly and a property crime secondly. It usually involves the use of some form of weapon (usually a firearm) and force against unsuspecting victims.
2. As far as I know, COVID in an international pandemic.
3. The murder rate and other violent crimes are up dramatically in the all the cities that are enacting defund the police policies. And only those cities. Cities like Baltimore, Ferguson and Chicago starting enacting these policies in 2014 and 2015 with predictable results. Chicago had 677 homicides in 2019 (pre-Covid) and over 700 so far in 2020.
4. Crime has actually been DOWN over all during the pandemic, and especially in cities that didn't buy into the false narratives like San Diego where crime is down dramatically.

You can read more about how crime is down here:

You can read about a criminologist who doubted whether the "Ferguson Effect" was a real thing, and changed his mind after looking at the data, here:

The ‘Ferguson Effect’ Is Real, and It’s Hurting Black Americans Most | National Review

Michael Brown’s killing in Ferguson has had terrifying consequences for inner-city murder rates, whether President Obama and left-wing activists like it or not.

www.nationalreview.com

Both good posts that seem to contradict each other's claims. Wonder which is more accurate?

 

[Gameface]

Both good posts that seem to contradict each other's claims. Wonder which is more accurate?

I'm kind of missing the big contradictions between the two posts. They are more talking past one another than contradicting one another, imho.

 

[Archie Moses]

A police officer said 'I don't have time for this' before shooting an 18-year-old with a mental illness dead in his home, his mother says

In 2014, the family of 18-year-old Keith Vidal called the police to get him to the hospital for mental-health treatment. Instead, he was killed.

www.insider.com

Woke up today. Read this and I'm still bothered by it. Disturbing. I feel the same way about most of the police shootings in this thread and that happen. Even when I think the shooting is justified, I find it disturbing that a life ended. With my super alt right mentality and as someone who hates guns and reads alt right news (ksl, Yahoo, CNN, Digg) I wish guns would go.

I get they can be used to protect and for hunting, but if people didn't have them, the world would have way less heart ache.

**** guns and **** those that make me hate them.

There are so many things to bitch about. Cops need more training. Simple and something I think/hope we all agree on.

My work is having our global virtual meetings this week (too bad it's not in person cause they're usually lit) and our keynote speaker was Leif Babin. My work sent me a signed copy of his book, Extreme Ownership, who he co authored with Jocko Willnick. Both reading the book and hearing first hand from Leif has been super educational for me.

If I remember correctly, I posted a clip of Jocko Willnick from his podcast on the JRE on here and it wasn't received well (I could be wrong but that's what I vaguely remember.) I think he nailed what police training and expectations should be like. Our police officers have hard, terrible jobs and are easy to blame when they **** up. Their training and continual training is a joke though. YouTube what Jocko recommends - I agree with him and trust his experience over keyboard critics.

 

[Gameface]

A police officer said 'I don't have time for this' before shooting an 18-year-old with a mental illness dead in his home, his mother says

In 2014, the family of 18-year-old Keith Vidal called the police to get him to the hospital for mental-health treatment. Instead, he was killed.

www.insider.com

Woke up today. Read this and I'm still bothered by it. Disturbing. I feel the same way about most of the police shootings in this thread and that happen. Even when I think the shooting is justified, I find it disturbing that a life ended. With my super alt right mentality and as someone who hates guns and reads alt right news (ksl, Yahoo, CNN, Digg) I wish guns would go. I get they can be used to protect and for hunting, but if people didn't have them, the world would have way less heart ache.

**** guns and **** those that make me hate them.

There are so many things to bitch about. Cops need more training. Simple and something I think/hope we all agree on.

My work is having our global virtual meetings this week (too bad it's not in person cause they're usually lit) and our keynote speaker was Leif Babin. My work sent me a signed copy of his book, Extreme Ownership, who he co authored with Jocko Willnick. Both reading the book and hearing first hand from Leif has been super educational for me.

If I remember correctly, I posted a clip of Jocko Willnick from his podcast on the JRE on here and it wasn't received well (I could be wrong but that's what I vaguely remember.) I think he nailed what police training and expectations should be like. Our police officers have hard, terrible jobs and are easy to blame when they **** up. Their training and continual training is a joke though. YouTube what Jocko recommends - I agree with him and trust his experience over keyboard critics.

Pretty horrible situation.

The article says that around 10% of 911 call involve situations where mental illness is involved. If 1 out of 10 calls have a mental illness component we need teams trained in dealing with mental illness to either take those calls without police or take calls alongside the police and take the lead in situations where mental illness is the primary factor and no one is in immediate danger.