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KqWIN said:
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I don’t think one overpay means another will happen. There were several teams after Jrue, I don’t think Boston overpaid.

I don’t think Lauri gets traded, but I also wonder how long Ainge can keep cruising. At some point a big decision will have to be made. There’s only so many years you can win 30-40 games.
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I will say that Lauri has the added benefit of being 26 and very pluggable, which makes him extra appealing to up-and-coming teams that still have extra assets. I don't think OKC was opening up the war chest too much for a 33-year old Jrue, but Lauri lines up better with other stars timeline. Same with the Pacers and Haliburton.
 
sip said:
Jazz beat reporters don't know **** most of the time. Also like I said maybe we just liked Hendricks and George more than Whitmore. There is nothing wrong with that and it definitely doesn't mean that we disliked Whitmore.
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There were all sorts of red flags on Whitmore. I think there were even rumors of him not wanting to go here. If a guy has a bad attitude in college at an institution he picked… not sure he’s the guy you want to bring in to a place he said “nah thanks”. His college coach totally talked **** about him and it’s a reason I’m sure he fell. Whitmore is talented but might end up being a second draft guy when he matures. He also may end up being awesome in Houston but guys with attitude or maturity issues tend to need some humbling before they can be successful.
 
jom2003 said:
The fact that Whitmore was not on the Jazz radar six month ago doesn't mean that he still isn't now. He's been impressive and flat out dominating in all the games he's played over the last six months.


View: https://youtu.be/52REmJ84XEU?si=08ZafdCuIBfye-Ny
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It's just hard for me to believe that the Jazz will change their mind based on the Gleague. I also think it's most likely that they didn't like him for non-basketball reasons, so what he is doing on a basketball court probably isn't changing their mind.

I could definitely be wrong though, and would love to be wrong.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
It's just hard for me to believe that the Jazz will change their mind based on the Gleague. I also think it's most likely that they didn't like him for non-basketball reasons, so what he is doing on a basketball court probably isn't changing their mind.

I could definitely be wrong though, and would love to be wrong.
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We changed our mind quickly on Hendrix after he had like one dominant G league game(when he's been pretty meh in most other games).
 
KqWIN said:
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. I don’t think one overpay means another will happen. There were several teams after Jrue, I don’t think Boston overpaid.

I don’t think Lauri gets traded, but I also wonder how long Ainge can keep cruising. At some point a big decision will have to be made. There’s only so many years you can win 30-40 games.
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I mean Jrue is an old guy on an expiring contract. He can make threats to teams to keep them out of the bidding. Lauri is still 1.5 years plus and can be extended by teams with cap space... and hasn't made the kind of money Jrue has. I doubt he'd be butt hurt about going anywhere.

I just think if its 1 good prospect, 1 mid prospect, and a couple picks that its an easy pass. For me the number is 4... 4 great picks or prospects (unencumbered picks or picks with upside). So you want to send 1 great prospect... then I need 3 great picks. This isn't to do the deal... this is my floor to consider the deal.

I feel like at some point we do have to pick a road. I think that decision comes next offseason though... unless an opportunity forces our hand. Someone wants to throw the monster offer at us... then I guess we move Lauri. Player X comes available... go get him. We hit on a top 10 pick then we can be patient.

If someone doesn't overpay in season then the best time to move him is at the draft. You can trade with someone in the top 5 and use that as a premium asset instead of a pile of picks and some used prospects. Gives us a better chance of getting real value in return. We go full tank for 2025 and 2026 and hope to snag a guy that can be a top 10-15 players someday.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I mean Jrue is an old guy on an expiring contract. He can make threats to teams to keep them out of the bidding. Lauri is still 1.5 years plus and can be extended by teams with cap space... and hasn't made the kind of money Jrue has. I doubt he'd be butt hurt about going anywhere.

I just think if its 1 good prospect, 1 mid prospect, and a couple picks that its an easy pass. For me the number is 4... 4 great picks or prospects (unencumbered picks or picks with upside). So you want to send 1 great prospect... then I need 3 great picks. This isn't to do the deal... this is my floor to consider the deal.

I feel like at some point we do have to pick a road. I think that decision comes next offseason though... unless an opportunity forces our hand. Someone wants to throw the monster offer at us... then I guess we move Lauri. Player X comes available... go get him. We hit on a top 10 pick then we can be patient.

If someone doesn't overpay in season then the best time to move him is at the draft. You can trade with someone in the top 5 and use that as a premium asset instead of a pile of picks and some used prospects. Gives us a better chance of getting real value in return. We go full tank for 2025 and 2026 and hope to snag a guy that can be a top 10-15 players someday.
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I'm just saying that having a wide market does not mean it's an automatic overpay. Rudy was (for most people) a giant overpay....it does not mean any other trade will be an overpay even if a player has a large market.

The value you're ascribing is pretty much what I've said. 2/3 young players and 2/3 picks depending on the quality of those assets. I think 4 is a good number, but I don't necessarily think they will all be great (whatever that means). That value is still short of what Don/Rudy were traded for. If you're expecting the same as we got for those two, I think you're in for disappointment if the Jazz do decide to go that direction.

The Jazz are in somewhat of a time crunch IMO. This will the second year in a row where we essentially toss away the season. If we renegotiate and extend him, he won't be able to be traded until this time next season, so that be another season thrown away if we don't get some more talent in right away. So it's important that the Jazz are able to put together a winning team before next season or decide to go the other direction. Well....I guess important is a relative term, but 3 years of hovering and doing nothing is pretty bad imo.
 
Not going back 43 pages looking If anyone thought of that before, but what about Chris Paul for John Collins ? We get an actual playmaker that can mentor Keyonte and Warriors can get a small ball center that fits their style.
 
KqWIN said:
I'm just saying that having a wide market does not mean it's an automatic overpay. Rudy was (for most people) a giant overpay....it does not mean any other trade will be an overpay even if a player has a large market.
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Its true it doesn't guarantee and overpay. But a wide market means its an overpay or we chill and wait for an overpay.
KqWIN said:
The value you're ascribing is pretty much what I've said. 2/3 young players and 2/3 picks depending on the quality of those assets. I think 4 is a good number, but I don't necessarily think they will all be great (whatever that means). That value is still short of what Don/Rudy were traded for. If you're expecting the same as we got for those two, I think you're in for disappointment if the Jazz do decide to go that direction.
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I think its different. I'm not just saying 2 young players... I'm saying two great prospects. I'm saying Walker and Mathurin, Cason Wallace... I wouldn't really consider Kuminga or Moody to be in that class. I like Moody but not a ton of upside. Kuminga is still theoretical and I don't get it.

Great picks are completely unprotected and/or expected to come from a team that could decline...Clips picks, Warriors picks, Suns picks would be the ones I want most but unprotected Pacers picks would be okay too. If they are way far out I'm dinging the value a bit.

I'm also using this as the floor of what I'd consider. If Pacers come with Walker and 4 firsts its not an autoaccept for me. If its Walker/Mathurin and 3-4 firsts then I guess we are going full tank.

I also think both the Cavs and Wolves trades have bolstered values now because of Walker and Lauri. If they were what was expected when we acquired them then I think its viewed so much differently.

KqWIN said:
The Jazz are in somewhat of a time crunch IMO. This will the second year in a row where we essentially toss away the season. If we renegotiate and extend him, he won't be able to be traded until this time next season, so that be another season thrown away if we don't get some more talent in right away. So it's important that the Jazz are able to put together a winning team before next season or decide to go the other direction. Well....I guess important is a relative term, but 3 years of hovering and doing nothing is pretty bad imo.
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We acquired George/Hendricks last year so I don't think the season was wasted. We are gathering right now. I don't really care all that much about this year's draft... like I'd rather have a top 5 pick than some other outcome... but it won't drive my decision making. Next year is another story but we can probe the market for Lauri or a Lauri sidekick for 12 months without a big issue. Waiting 30 games or so until Lauri is trade eligible doesn't bother me much either.

Right now the price is the "make me move" price. Next year it may be that we list him at a normal market price.
 
rjfan said:
Not going back 43 pages looking If anyone thought of that before, but what about Chris Paul for John Collins ? We get an actual playmaker that can mentor Keyonte and Warriors can get a small ball center that fits their style.
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He wouldn’t report doubt he would ever even step on a flight to Utah unless it was to play against us


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rjfan said:
Not going back 43 pages looking If anyone thought of that before, but what about Chris Paul for John Collins ? We get an actual playmaker that can mentor Keyonte and Warriors can get a small ball center that fits their style.
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Warriors would never do that
 
Waiting until draft night opens up some better opportunities if no one wants to get wild with and offer. Say Memphis struggles and ends up staying bottom 10... get that pick from them, plus 26/28 and swaps in 25/27 with our 3 picks. You get a chance to go through a couple transaction cycles and get a look at a full year of the young guys.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its true it doesn't guarantee and overpay. But a wide market means its an overpay or we chill and wait for an overpay.

I think its different. I'm not just saying 2 young players... I'm saying two great prospects. I'm saying Walker and Mathurin, Cason Wallace... I wouldn't really consider Kuminga or Moody to be in that class. I like Moody but not a ton of upside. Kuminga is still theoretical and I don't get it.

Great picks are completely unprotected and/or expected to come from a team that could decline...Clips picks, Warriors picks, Suns picks would be the ones I want most but unprotected Pacers picks would be okay too. If they are way far out I'm dinging the value a bit.

I'm also using this as the floor of what I'd consider. If Pacers come with Walker and 4 firsts its not an autoaccept for me. If its Walker/Mathurin and 3-4 firsts then I guess we are going full tank.

I also think both the Cavs and Wolves trades have bolstered values now because of Walker and Lauri. If they were what was expected when we acquired them then I think its viewed so much differently.


We acquired George/Hendricks last year so I don't think the season was wasted. We are gathering right now. I don't really care all that much about this year's draft... like I'd rather have a top 5 pick than some other outcome... but it won't drive my decision making. Next year is another story but we can probe the market for Lauri or a Lauri sidekick for 12 months without a big issue. Waiting 30 games or so until Lauri is trade eligible doesn't bother me much either.

Right now the price is the "make me move" price. Next year it may be that we list him at a normal market price.
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Wasted might not be the right word, but I don’t think it’s a desirable position to be a 30-40 win team under the guise of “gathering”. Like we can’t sit here year after year waiting for a big trade and marginally flipping assets for small gains (or losses). At some point you have to press some buttons of consequence.

It’s nice if you can hit on the 9th or 16th pick…but those opportunities aren’t exactly what you suck 3 years in a row for. I also think it’s just generally a shame for both Lauri and the Jazz to never even give him a chance to win anything year after year.
 
KqWIN said:
Wasted might not be the right word, but I don’t think it’s a desirable position to be a 30-40 win team under the guise of “gathering”. Like we can’t sit here year after year waiting for a big trade and marginally flipping assets for small gains (or losses). At some point you have to press some buttons of consequence.

It’s nice if you can hit on the 9th or 16th pick…but those opportunities aren’t exactly what you suck 3 years in a row for. I also think it’s just generally a shame for both Lauri and the Jazz to never even give him a chance to win anything year after year.
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Look I invented team tank. I get the treadmill in the middle. Pick a path and go hard is generally the best path. Look at all the treading water Toronto has done and all the talent they have bled in the process. I just think at this point in time its clear you stay the course until an opportunity pushes you one way or another.

None of this means I think it was smart to keep kicking the can down the road last year and not tank harder... I also think the Collins deal was stupid and further keeps us stuck in 30 win range. I'm not making decisions based on those sunk costs. The pivot point is this offseason but I think you can also buy yourself some time until Lauri would be trade eligible next year. Wait longer than that and significantly lessen your opportunity to get a high pick in 2025 and I think you sat on your hands too long.

I think DA would be much happier making a star trade and adding to Lauri so I think he will wait it out.
 
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