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What Happened to Katie?

Gameface said:
I realize there are community showers at places. As an adult I don't have to, and I do not, use them. I don't like them. I never have. I don't think school kids should be forced to use the community showers at all, ever and I don't think they should have been built as open community showers. Make individual stalls with curtains. Like I said, even on Navy ships they have individual shower stalls, and Navy ships have precious little spare space for such luxuries.
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So what should happen if a student with a penis at my daughter's middle school decides that he identifies as female and wants to shower with the girls? I believe that it's a community shower (though I'm not certain). According to the Obama Administration this child's wishes must be accommodated, even if there are girls (even a majority or all of the girls) have a problem with it. But for some reason some people believe that we must accommodate the few at the expense of the many.

It would be way, way, way easier for everyone if we just relabeled the rooms Penis and Vagina so that there is really no debate about which room each person belongs in. It seems to me that the left is apparently getting their jollys out of creating chaos where it simply doesn't need to exist. I can only assume that they believe that pushing this issue will help in motivating their base.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
So what should happen if a student with a penis at my daughter's middle school decides that he identifies as female and wants to shower with the girls? I believe that it's a community shower (though I'm not certain). According to the Obama Administration this child's wishes must be accommodated, even if there are girls (even a majority or all of the girls) have a problem with it. But for some reason some people believe that we must accommodate the few at the expense of the many.

It would be way, way, way easier for everyone if we just relabeled the rooms Penis and Vagina so that there is really no debate about which room each person belongs in. It seems to me that the left is apparently getting their jollys out of creating chaos where it simply doesn't need to exist. I can only assume that they believe that pushing this issue will help in motivating their base.
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Well, I've already said that I don't think there should be any community showers...

But there are community showers, unfortunately.

I don't think a transgender middle or high school student should be forced to shower with the other students, of either gender.

But it's as if you think there are pretend transgender boys just angling to get in the girls locker room. If a student expresses their desire to shower with the opposite sex I don't think they should be allowed to do so. I think all students should be free to keep their body private anot be forced to take a shower in front of an audience. Ever.
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm sorry but I won't discuss this issue anymore. I have been called a bigot too many times. Im done.
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I understand. I've gotten negs for my position and been called the same sorts of names. And I think the left will ultimately win this debate by making people feel bad for holding "old-fashioned" opinions. Just because some idea is new, though, doesn't make it better. I haven't seen an argument approaching that threshold with regard to this particular new idea yet.
 
In middle school we had to take showers after PE. The coaches office had a one way window that faced the showers. I walked by one time and saw the coach with one leg up on a bench that sat under that window chewing on a candy bar and watching the other kids take a shower.

I also had a girl tell me stuff that another boy had told her about my junk. I entered puberty earlier than most the other kids (almost all the other kids) and the words "huge" and "hairy" were involved.

Anyway, I don't like that creepy middle school coaches were watching me shower or that it gave other kids a chance to check out my junk. I don't like community showers, especially not ones that a person is forced to use. I don't think we should force our kids to shower with each other. Like I said, I'm amazed that this is how it is and that it was ever okay.
 
Gameface said:
Well, I've already said that I don't think there should be any community showers...

But there are community showers, unfortunately.

I don't think a transgender middle or high school student should be forced to shower with the other students, of either gender.

But it's as if you think there are pretend transgender boys just angling to get in the girls locker room. If a student expresses their desire to shower with the opposite sex I don't think they should be allowed to do so. I think all students should be free to keep their body private anot be forced to take a shower in front of an audience. Ever.
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I agree with your opinion on showering privacy. Some people are okay with showering publicly and some hate it. The ones who hate it should definitely not be forced to.

I honestly think you're misunderstanding where the left is going on this issue, though. The scenario I suggested above is going to come about in real life, and soon. And then there will be another issue and another issue and another, always pushing this boundary to the left. You negged me for saying that I won't be surprised when it happens and you apparently will because you somehow felt insulted by that. I don't understand why, but I'm very confident that I'll be proven correct. All I have to do is look down the pathway that we're traveling and see where it leads.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I agree with your opinion on showering privacy. Some people are okay with showering publicly and some hate it. The ones who hate it should definitely not be forced to.

I honestly think you're misunderstanding where the left is going on this issue, though. The scenario I suggested above is going to come about in real life, and soon. And then there will be another issue and another issue and another, always pushing this boundary to the left. You negged me for saying that I won't be surprised when it happens and you apparently will because you somehow felt insulted by that. I don't understand why, but I'm very confident that I'll be proven correct. All I have to do is look down the pathway that we're traveling and see where it leads.
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has it come about in developed countries not named the United States?
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I agree with your opinion on showering privacy. Some people are okay with showering publicly and some hate it. The ones who hate it should definitely not be forced to.

I honestly think you're misunderstanding where the left is going on this issue, though. The scenario I suggested above is going to come about in real life, and soon. And then there will be another issue and another issue and another, always pushing this boundary to the left. You negged me for saying that I won't be surprised when it happens and you apparently will because you somehow felt insulted by that. I don't understand why, but I'm very confident that I'll be proven correct. All I have to do is look down the pathway that we're traveling and see where it leads.
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I negged you because I asked you a direct question three times and you never answered it. That's what I said in the neg, and also that instead of answering you called me naive. I didn't feel like you were contributing to the discussion, just ratcheting up the animosity.
 
dalamon said:
has it come about in developed countries not named the United States?
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I imagine the perverts take your stance n not gamefaces. Tell us is there a specific reason u want dudes exposing there selves to chicks? Come out the closet. What is your goal here? Easy access? You a peeping tom or something?
 
Gameface said:
I negged you because I asked you a direct question three times and you never answered it. That's what I said in the neg, and also that instead of answering you called me naive. I didn't feel like you were contributing to the discussion, just ratcheting up the animosity.
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Whatever. I felt like I responded to all of your posts that were directed toward me but maybe I didn't adequately address some topic along the way. As to ratcheting up the animosity, I believe that the animosity around this issue has been created by the left. Why are they turning this into an issue? The answers might be found in this article:

https://www.wnd.com/2016/05/obamas-gender-identity-rules-go-beyond-bathrooms-showers/
 
What I find interesting is that so many people treat this issue as if it is a new thing, as if transgender people haven't been dealing with this for centuries. From what I can see, most transgender people do not start transitioning by high school (I imagine due to their own confusion, fear of rejection, etc). So this small minority is even smaller for minors. In the past it appears this has been handled on a case-by-case basis on the school district level, and no one has been making transgender kids shower with other kids. I do not believe that proponents of bathroom use by gender identity are insisting that they be forced to take showers with everyone else. This just seems to me like an argument with little basis in fact and a scare tactic because of misunderstanding and distaste.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/us/as-transgender-students-make-gains-schools-hesitate-at-bathrooms.html?_r=0

In Los Angeles, where the district has had a policy allowing transgender students to use bathrooms and locker rooms according to their gender identity since 2004, Judy Chiasson, coordinator in the Human Relations, Diversity and Equity Department for the Los Angeles Unified School District, said that schools have had few complaints.

“All of our students tend to be pretty modest,” Ms. Chiasson said. She added that unlike students in previous generations, even after physical education classes or athletic practices, students today do not tend to undress or shower in public facilities, and in bathrooms, students can use private stalls. Because of this, she said, in many cases, students do not even know whether another student is transgender or not.

A transgender student does not want “to invade anybody else’s privacy,” Ms. Chiasson said. “She’s in the bathroom to do her business.”
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