What's JazzFanz's stance on Marriage Equality?

[Dr. Jones]

First of all-- what? God = Religion. Like it or not.

Secondly-- I know! I know plenty of respectful people who just are against gay marriage based on morals. Hell, back when I was a homo in denial while hiding in the closet, I was even against gay marriage. I can see your respect, and I'm glad you're making sure I understand.

But its one thing to say "I don't count myself a .0000001% better than you" and then say "I don't believe you should have the right to get married to a person you love." By saying you're against same-sex marriage, you ARE saying you think you deserve better rights than other individuals.

Let's play the Hypothetical Game, shall we?

My hypothetical committed long-term partner makes a LOT of money. He's a doctor. We've been together 10 years. I stay at home and take care of my dead sister's kid and he brings home the bread. One day, hypothetical committed long-term partner is on his way home from the OR, and gets in a car accident. He doesn't have much time left to live. I can't go into the hospital and see him. I can't say goodbye when he dies. And when he passes away, all his money goes back to his family, and me and my kid are left cold in the streets.

Switching it up a bit, let's say I'm the one who gets in a car accident. We're going to pretend he's not so rich this time around. My operation is going to cost a lot of money, and he doesn't have it-- what he DOES have is AMAZING health insurance. The problem is, he can't use it on me, and I end up dead in the hospital. I would have made it if we had the stupid piece of paper that says "Yup, they're married."

There are just SO MANY instances of tragic stories like this, that ACTUALLY happen on a day-to-day basis. How can you possibly say that voting "No" against same-sex marriage is the more Christ-like option?

For me, for more than a decade, the word 'religion' has been a bad word. It's a long story, but I just see too much hurt stemming from religion and tend to think of myself as more spiritual than ritualistic/religious.

Back on point. I have no problem with all the financial/economical aspects of gay unity .. I just don't like the part that it's sanctified by God .. that's about it for me.

And though I don't think I'm better than you .. I'm not asking for my sins to be legalized and blessed by the nation. I sin. I also atone. In that repentence, I don't ask to just make everything simpler by making it no longer sin. So, see, I don't think I'm better than you.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Some people are gay.....






































and that's okay. Let 'em marry. I will never force religious beliefs of my own onto others, when it can seriously impact a person outside of my faith very negatively.

 

[Xsy]

Well, I guess I just don't like your definition of 'sin'. :d

My definition of sin is hurting another person. Not hurting anyone? Good on ya, you're a great person. In this case, you are hurting people by voting 'No' on Marraige Equality, so I guess it's a sin in my book.

Honestly, you have your morals, and your beliefs, so good on ya for sticking with them. I'm not here to shake anyone's faith. It's just unfortunate that your beliefs are ... well, hurting other people.

If you would be so kind, which scripture exactly are you taking your opinions from? I've been only half-reading this topic since I've been at work most of the time. If you're LDS, you're obviously just following the prophet-- a mouthpiece from God in which you sort of HAVE to follow-- so I can't really give you crap for that. If you're an independent Christian though, and you quote me that verse in Leviticus, I'm gonna have to go ahead and read that whole chapter to you and ask some questions.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Leviticus is old testament, right? Is there even much mention of homosexuality in the new testament? Cuz from what I recall........well really, I can't recall anything.

 

[asian_roger]

Well, I guess I just don't like your definition of 'sin'. :d

My definition of sin is hurting another person. Not hurting anyone? Good on ya, you're a great person. In this case, you are hurting people by voting 'No' on Marraige Equality, so I guess it's a sin in my book.

Honestly, you have your morals, and your beliefs, so good on ya for sticking with them. I'm not here to shake anyone's faith. It's just unfortunate that your beliefs are ... well, hurting other people.

If you would be so kind, which scripture exactly are you taking your opinions from? I've been only half-reading this topic since I've been at work most of the time. If you're LDS, you're obviously just following the prophet-- a mouthpiece from God in which you sort of HAVE to follow-- so I can't really give you crap for that. If you're an independent Christian though, and you quote me that verse in Leviticus, I'm gonna have to go ahead and read that whole chapter to you and ask some questions.

This is like adding fuel to the fire, bro. Nice spacing dalamon, very dramatic.

 

[Xsy]

There are sooo many 'sins' in the Bible that are completely ignored in this day and age. It blows my mind how people pick and choose which sins are still valid, and which ones are outdated.

 

[asian_roger]

There are sooo many 'sins' in the Bible that are completely ignored in this day and age. It blows my mind how people pick and choose which sins are still valid, and which ones are outdated.

Quote me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a day when Mormons didn't accept black people?

 

[Xsy]

This is like adding fuel to the fire, bro.

I swear I'm trying to be respectful, but its almost impossible to respectfully disagree without coming off as total *******!

I was once a very religious person-- I was a very active member of the LDS church, so I know how it is to hold religion dear to your heart. So I really can't hate on people for just standing up in what they believe in. And I know the LDS mentality-- its a tough faith to shake. (Not that I'm trying to.)

Its just really difficult to disagree politely. Heh.

 

[Xsy]

Quote me if I am wrong, but wasn't there a day when Mormons didn't accept black people?

Yep. But let's keep this more on the subject of marriage equality instead of LDS plot-holes.

Basically, the whole point of this topic was to point out that there is absolutely no such thing as a non-religious reason to ban same-sex marriage. Period. I hope I sort of got through to some people that one 'bad' thing (voting yes on a same-sex marriage ballot) can mean a whole lot of good things for people outside their faith. Jesus said to love thy neighbor, and judge not lest ye be judged. Its about time people start acting that way. Live your life the way you want to live it, but please allow other people do have that same convenience.

 

[asian_roger]

Yep. But let's keep this more on the subject of marriage equality instead of LDS plot-holes.

Basically, the whole point of this topic was to point out that there is absolutely no such thing as a non-religious reason to ban same-sex marriage. Period. I hope I sort of got through to some people that one 'bad' thing (voting yes on a same-sex marriage ballot) can mean a whole lot of good things for people outside their faith. Jesus said to love thy neighbor, and judge not lest ye be judged. Its about time people start acting that way. Live your life the way you want to live it, but please allow other people do have that same convenience.

Ah yes, sorry to go off topic. I was referring to how some ideas might have been outdated, like what you said above. It's very hard for people to deny your statement of "Live your life the way you want to live it, but please allow other people do have that same convenience." Amen.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Well, I guess I just don't like your definition of 'sin'. :d

My definition of sin is hurting another person. Not hurting anyone? Good on ya, you're a great person. In this case, you are hurting people by voting 'No' on Marraige Equality, so I guess it's a sin in my book.

Honestly, you have your morals, and your beliefs, so good on ya for sticking with them. I'm not here to shake anyone's faith. It's just unfortunate that your beliefs are ... well, hurting other people.

If you would be so kind, which scripture exactly are you taking your opinions from? I've been only half-reading this topic since I've been at work most of the time. If you're LDS, you're obviously just following the prophet-- a mouthpiece from God in which you sort of HAVE to follow-- so I can't really give you crap for that. If you're an independent Christian though, and you quote me that verse in Leviticus, I'm gonna have to go ahead and read that whole chapter to you and ask some questions.

I know that calling it sin is offensive, I apologize, but am trying to be completely transparent rather than waste your time with riding the fence I'm not really on.
Thank you for also showing respect that you can appreciate my beliefs as well. That makes for much better conversation when we respect the others viewpoint even when we may disagree.

No, I'm not LDS.

I hate that you asked me for scriptures. I only say that, because what difference does it make? Is there a chance you'll read them and come to believe more in the way I do? I'll respond glass half-full;

Aside from Leviticus ..
Romans 1:26-27
Genesis 19 (this may require some careful reading for a complete understanding)

(if you want more, there are plenty, but I will leave you with only those two)

 

[spycam1]

For me, for more than a decade, the word 'religion' has been a bad word. It's a long story, but I just see too much hurt stemming from religion and tend to think of myself as more spiritual than ritualistic/religious.

Back on point. I have no problem with all the financial/economical aspects of gay unity .. I just don't like the part that it's sanctified by God .. that's about it for me.

And though I don't think I'm better than you .. I'm not asking for my sins to be legalized and blessed by the nation. I sin. I also atone. In that repentence, I don't ask to just make everything simpler by making it no longer sin. So, see, I don't think I'm better than you.

Does the word marriage always have religious connotations though?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

The concept of marriage has been around since long before monotheism ever came about, so the idea of the "sanctity of marriage" has always been a curious one to me.

 

[asian_roger]

For such a heated topic, its admirable to see that people can still keep their civility.

 

[spycam1]

I know that calling it sin is offensive, I apologize, but am trying to be completely transparent rather than waste your time with riding the fence I'm not really on.
Thank you for also showing respect that you can appreciate my beliefs as well. That makes for much better conversation when we respect the others viewpoint even when we may disagree.

No, I'm not LDS.

I hate that you asked me for scriptures. I only say that, because what difference does it make? Is there a chance you'll read them and come to believe more in the way I do? I'll respond glass half-full;

Aside from Leviticus ..
Romans 1:26-27
Genesis 19 (this may require some careful reading for a complete understanding)

(if you want more, there are plenty, but I will leave you with only those two)

I actually would be interested in more, if you know any others off the top of your head.

 

[fishonjazz]

I have no problem with gay marriage. Im for it.
I have no problem with gay people either. Just a quick tangent though: I know a few gay people and they all tell me that they just want to be accepted and a normal part of society etc etc.

Then they have these gay pride parades and put on sex slave costumes, dress in drag, wear speedos and generally act as wierd and freaky as they possibly can. Why do they act like that? It just makes most straight people dislike gays to see them behave that way. Seems like people get more and more accepting of the gay community and then they have one of those parades and take destroy some of that acceptance by the strange behavior.
By the way i dont think the gay pride parades are frowned upon by most straight people because the people in the parade are gay, even if it was a straight pride parade and people were acting like that it would rub me the wrong way.(no pun intended)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

For me, for more than a decade, the word 'religion' has been a bad word. It's a long story, but I just see too much hurt stemming from religion and tend to think of myself as more spiritual than ritualistic/religious.

Back on point. I have no problem with all the financial/economical aspects of gay unity .. I just don't like the part that it's sanctified by God .. that's about it for me.

And though I don't think I'm better than you .. I'm not asking for my sins to be legalized and blessed by the nation. I sin. I also atone. In that repentence, I don't ask to just make everything simpler by making it no longer sin. So, see, I don't think I'm better than you.

 

[Xsy]

Okay, so the Romans scripture is already way better than the frickin' Leviticus chapter. That chapter has so many 'sins' that modern day Christians commit on a daily basis, it makes me want to cut myself. But I digress... there are just so many different ways to read and interpret scripture that I just don't understand how you choose which beliefs to follow, and which beliefs you believe are truly "just history."

To be frank, the Bible itself is a translation of a translation of a translation that was edited because a certain king wanted it to say something else, which was then translated in a different language, which was translated again, yadda yadda yadda. Who knows how close the modern day Bible is to the original. They can barely translate video games from Japanese to English properly, I don't even wanna know how convoluted the Kings James Bible is. Hell, the fact that it says "King James Version" on it means "This is not the original document." I guess I just can't take anything that the world's longest game of Telephone says seriously.

Not when it affects my life in such a big way.

 

[Dr. Jones]

There are sooo many 'sins' in the Bible that are completely ignored in this day and age. It blows my mind how people pick and choose which sins are still valid, and which ones are outdated.

I'm not one of those. Homosexuality is not some 'special' sin in my book. I'm just against making it special by saying it's okay now (from a 'sin' standpoint).
I believe the key difference between most sin and homosexuality is how they are perceived by the sinner. Say I get drunk, wake up, feel like a loser and that I let God down, and atone .. praying He forgives me once again. I never asked to make being a drunk okay by Him. In my example, I knowingly sinned .. and I never said, "God, my dad was drunk, his dad was a drunk, and I believe that it's in my genes .. therefore, I ask you to make being a drunk okay for me .. because, well, I'm a drunk.

 

[Xsy]

The concept of marriage has been around since long before monotheism ever came about, so the idea of the "sanctity of marriage" has always been a curious one to me.

"You can have my daughter, just give me 2 pigs and a cow."