Who do you side with?

[Dr. Jones]

I get that but I also tire of people that depend on and benefit from the system more so than most believing that their privilege was gained in spite of rather than within that system.

that cuts both ways...
You implied a system that allows for capitalism while also lamenting the same??
Maybe I should read posts twice, i dunno.

Btw, I've never been given a dime, ever.. And have a charitable heart.. And am a conservative. Mind blown?

 

[♪alt13]

that cuts both ways...
You implied a system that allows for capitalism while also lamenting the same??
Maybe I should read posts twice, i dunno.

Btw, I've never been given a dime, ever.. And have a charitable heart.. And am a conservative. Mind blown?

I'm not attacking you or your heart.

Yes I did explain why I thought that the state(to which I am opposed)has a claim to capitalist property(to which I am opposed). I blame few for doing the best they can and succeeding within the system. They did not make the rules they just played the game so to speak but when they think they are exempt or above the system when it is their turn to pay I do get annoyed. I do also think we can do better. Property, in a capitalist sense, is the essence of fascism. It is only through the power of the state that the capitalist can justify their property. They cannot justify it by need nor charity nor their own strength. They can only justify it through patronage to a system that nowadays they so often claim to despise but would not have the slightest hope of maintaining their privilege without.

 

[bigb]

Without the state it isn't property. It's **** that is close to you. The state creates and enforces property rights. Every form of government is fundamentally a system that creates and manages property. Without the power of the state the deed or whatever piece of paper you are using to stake your claim would be joke. Without the government your property doesn't have value because you can't even justify that you own it. That's why they get to tax you on it, because they created and protected it for you.

Isn't that what the property tax is for? Not capital gains?

 

[Deleted member 848]

that cuts both ways...
You implied a system that allows for capitalism while also lamenting the same??
Maybe I should read posts twice, i dunno.

Btw, I've never been given a dime, ever.. And have a charitable heart.. And am a conservative. Mind blown?

You've been born with the privilege of being a white male.

Think of all those deals you've finished, and now think about how many you'd settle with the name Ahmed Mohammed. Or, if you were a woman wearing a hijab in said board rooms.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You've been born with the privilege of being a white male.

Think of all those deals you've finished, and now think about how many you'd settle with the name Ahmed Mohammed. Or, if you were a woman wearing a hijab in said board rooms.

Sincere question (because I'm just not aware of how things work against Muslims - your example).
Is this a global issue, or one that is more a U.S. thing?

 

[Dr. Jones]

And, btw, I can't get behind a "white male" tax. I've worked my *** off and started with nothing.
I am all for equality, but not sure how to accomplish fairness without penalizing someone else for an "advantage" they had no choice in...

Tbh, I really believe I could have done all the things I've done as Ahmed.. but admit I am likely too naive to confidently defend that position.

I can say, however, I would recruit the **** out of Dala for any position he would want and would feel I hit a home run in doing so.

 

[♪alt13]

Isn't that what the property tax is for? Not capital gains?

Money is property. It isn't real property like a home but it is property. It a form of property to which the government is most involved in its creation and management. Why should it not be taxed while other forms of property are?

 

[JAZZGASM]

Isn't that what the property tax is for? Not capital gains?

I feel that current taxes and tax breaks for owner occupied property has a pretty good balance. There are people that tax advantages of the tax rules to flip a house every two years and walk away with no taxes. If there were not limits on the tax breaks, it would be abused even more.

FWIW, Utah property taxes are very reasonable. Try living in New York, where a $250k house has $8,000 a year in property tax (more or less doubles your mortgage).

 

[JAZZGASM]

that cuts both ways...
You implied a system that allows for capitalism while also lamenting the same??
Maybe I should read posts twice, i dunno.

Btw, I've never been given a dime, ever.. And have a charitable heart.. And am a conservative. Mind blown?

Statistics show conservatives are more likely to make charitable contributions. The difference is conservatives want to choose where to donate. Liberals want the government to choose what happens to your money.

I am fairly neutral politically overall, but I am all for better fiscal policy, both in spending and in taxes. I really have no problem with property or sales tax for the most part, but local spending could be better. It is the federal spending that bothers me.

I started my career with the federal government. If they didn't spend their allotted budget for the year, their next years budget was reduced the the amount spent in the prior year, which caused all the departments to overspend. One of our floors had the carpet replaced every year just to use up the budget. The federal government always seemed to have a 3-4 month hiring freeze around October (when the federal budget gets fought over) so these departments overhire by 20% before the freeze occurs, leaving a bunch of people getting paid for doing next to nothing.

More taxes may be a necessity, but it is hard to stomach when I see the blatant inefficiency with our (taxpayers) money that occurs now.

 

[Siro]

I'm not attacking you or your heart.

Yes I did explain why I thought that the state(to which I am opposed)has a claim to capitalist property(to which I am opposed). I blame few for doing the best they can and succeeding within the system. They did not make the rules they just played the game so to speak but when they think they are exempt or above the system when it is their turn to pay I do get annoyed. I do also think we can do better. Property, in a capitalist sense, is the essence of fascism. It is only through the power of the state that the capitalist can justify their property. They cannot justify it by need nor charity nor their own strength. They can only justify it through patronage to a system that nowadays they so often claim to despise but would not have the slightest hope of maintaining their privilege without.

You're opposed to the idea of a state? What is your preferred alternative?

 

[♪alt13]

You're opposed to the idea of a state? What is your preferred alternative?

If I had to nail my ideological leanings down I would call myself a progressive social anarchist. Progressive as in not revolutionary, social as in the welfare of others really does matter, and anarchist as in dismantling hierarchical relationships.

I would seek to replace state power with institutions of free association. Bitcoin is perhaps a good example. I would seek to alter our justifications for property so as to reduce the need for the state. I would seek to move away from a capitalist system and toward a cooperative one. I think a day will come when the state is no more intimidating than the post office and the people's needs are largely met through the efforts of themselves and their community.

 

[Siro]

If I had to nail my ideological leanings down I would call myself a progressive social anarchist. Progressive as in not revolutionary, social as in the welfare of others really does matter, and anarchist as in dismantling hierarchical relationships.

I would seek to replace state power with institutions of free association. Bitcoin is perhaps a good example. I would seek to alter our justifications for property so as to reduce the need for the state. I would seek to move away from a capitalist system and toward a cooperative one. I think a day will come when the state is no more intimidating than the post office and the people's needs are met through the efforts of themselves and their community.

Interesting. I personally prefer a global governing body that enforces a narrow set of first principles, along with largely autonomous entities based on common interests.