Why do we restrict the voting rights of felons?

[SaltyDawg]

It's not the kids who need to be talked to it's the parents. All I'm saying is completing avoiding, and not even mentioning, the real root of the problem - the lack of solid families - any attempt to fix our education problem will be like putting a band aid on 007's nuts at the end of Casino Royale.

No I totally agree that is a huge problem. That's why I said teachers should be allowed to spank kids to pick up the slack for parents who don't do their job (several posts back). Beyond that, I don't know what you can do about the lack of family values.

We still have a shortage of funding in the classrooms though. The 2 problems are not mutually exclusive.

And that, my friends, is why felons aren't allowed to vote, lol.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

What good does it do to turn our backs on root causes and instead blindly throw money at the easiest targets without regard to the self-reinforcing & spreading cycles? President Johnson's poverty fight with it's deeply racial undertones has done just that for the last 40-50 years. Throwing money at the problem feels good but it's a lazy way of avoiding the underlying causes while appeasing our conscience even though we are exacerbating the problem.

I don't believe in changing people like Spazz recommends either. I believe in harboring an environment where people change themselves. People are good and will do the right thing given a healthy, nourishing environment.

Maybe I was not clear. I do believe we should try to help people change, through a good environment and other ways, but yes the people do have to change themselves...but we can help.

I think we said basically the same thing, I am just not as clear it seems.

 

[franklin]

Maybe I was not clear. I do believe we should try to help people change, through a good environment and other ways, but yes the people do have to change themselves...but we can help.

I think we said basically the same thing, I am just not as clear it seems.

My apologies for misrepresenting what you wrote. You were more than clear & I was too slow to give your post its rightful dues.

 

[TroutBum]

My apologies for misrepresenting what you wrote. You were more than clear & I was too slow to give your post its rightful dues.

Wow, what proof are you drinking tonight, Frankster?

 

[franklin]

Wow, what proof are you drinking tonight, Frankster?

151/47.1875/#of Trout alts.

 

[The Thriller]

because felons are lame!

 

[TroutBum]

151/47.1875/#of Trout alts.

That is hot.

 

[sirkickyass]

Doing some more thinking about this. Pretty sure it's very difficult to justify. I think I'd be on board if the crime was specifically about abuse of democratic process like election rigging. Otherwise, it just seems like it's a majority/minority issue where we shut those with the most experience with the criminal justice system out of having any say on how that system runs. Almost like if male congressman went crazy over birth control and abortions.

Save the hate mail, I kid I kid.

 

[Gameface]

Doing some more thinking about this. Pretty sure it's very difficult to justify. I think I'd be on board if the crime was specifically about abuse of democratic process like election rigging. Otherwise, it just seems like it's a majority/minority issue where we shut those with the most experience with the criminal justice system out of having any say on how that system runs. Almost like if male congressman went crazy over birth control and abortions.

Save the hate mail, I kid I kid.

Combine that with the hyper aggressive enforcement of drug laws in the lowest of low income areas while in the suburbs police often turn a blind eye to drug possession and you've got modern day Jim Crow.

 

[One Brow]

I have to think nutrition ranks near the bottom of why our education is on the decline.

You don't think the brain is a physical object whose development is affected by nutrition? Or, you think most poor people eat healthily? ??

 

[One Brow]

No it is not. Victim blaming would be blaming the kids and I am not.

The parent can't be victims themselves?

Even in very bad circumstances parents can still ensure that things liek homework and what not are done.

Sure, if they get help. The parents that can live in someone else's home and work part-time get to spend all kinds of time with their kids.

 

[Gameface]

You don't think the brain is a physical object whose development is affected by nutrition? Or, you think most poor people eat healthily? ??

There's a pretty wide gap between eating an ideal diet and getting enough nutrition for proper brain functioning.

 

[One Brow]

Obviously. I'm just of the opinion that having a dad around is more important to a kid's education than a balanced breakfast.

Having a dad around does help with nutrition. However, the government can't force fathers to be involved. They can only help with the latter.

 

[One Brow]

I believe in harboring an environment where people change themselves. People are good and will do the right thing given a healthy, nourishing environment.

Agreed. Unfortunately, there is not the political will in this country to accomplish that.

 

[One Brow]

There's a pretty wide gap between eating an ideal diet and getting enough nutrition for proper brain functioning.

Acknowledged, with a caveat that there's a difference between "minimal", "proper", and "optimal" brain functioning; and a healthy diet can make the difference there.

 

[Stoked]

Agreed. Unfortunately, there is not the political will in this country to accomplish that.

Ignoring what is realistically likely, or not likely, to happen. What laws, rules or regulations would you put into place to make these changes happen?

 

[franklin]

Ignoring what is realistically likely, or not likely, to happen. What laws, rules or regulations would you put into place to make these changes happen?

Dispersing the ghettos we naively created under the guise of welfare would be ideal. Why did we think it was a good idea to round up those most affected by poverty and cram them inside dense communities where all anyone wants is to get out?

Targeting the poorest areas with subsidized low skill jobs that have gone overseas would go a long way. We think the cost of teenage pregnancies, welfare, subsidized housing, theft and vandalism, incarceration, increasing police forces, drug rehabilitation programs, & expanding local judicial branches is cheaper though.

 

[Stoked]

Dispersing the ghettos we naively created under the guise of welfare would be ideal. Why did we think it was a good idea to round up those most affected by poverty and cram them inside dense communities where all anyone wants is to get out?

Targeting the poorest areas with subsidized low skill jobs that have gone overseas would go a long way. We think the cost of teenage pregnancies, welfare, subsidized housing, theft and vandalism, incarceration, increasing police forces, drug rehabilitation programs, & expanding local judicial branches is cheaper though.

Thanks for telling me who you would target but not what you would do. How will you disperse them? Forciblly? Trying to lure them to different areas of the country thru aid and other programs so that the populations are more even dispersed? HOW will you do it?

Short of force or insane good "perks" I do not see it working to any great degree.

 

[margodydek]

You don't think the brain is a physical object whose development is affected by nutrition? Or, you think most poor people eat healthily? ??

My point is that a balanced breakfast isn't going to help little Jimmy who doesn't know his dad and his mom is turning tricks at night. Obviously I know that the government can't step in and force his dad to come back and get his mom off dope, but I do think our leaders should start stressing the importance of marriages/families. I just think it's really backwards thinking to address every result of the lack of solid families (poor education, crime, poverty, LACK OF NUTRITION, etc), but God forbid we mention the root of the problems.

I didn't listen to every word of all the debates, but out of the 4, the only one I heard even talk about the importance of strong marriages/families was Romney, and that was for about 30 seconds.

 

[One Brow]

Thanks for telling me who you would target but not what you would do. How will you disperse them? Forciblly? Trying to lure them to different areas of the country thru aid and other programs so that the populations are more even dispersed? HOW will you do it?

Short of force or insane good "perks" I do not see it working to any great degree.

Not building them would be a good start. Instead of building high-density low-income housing, allow for a little more room from the neighbors. This is certainly possible in a lot of the Midwest.

In addition to franklin's ideas, creating an atmosphere of security (more supplemental funding of police and fire forces, less risk of losing health insurance, subsidized fire insurance, etc.). Working with media ro promore more positive, diverse images.