Why do we restrict the voting rights of felons?

[margodydek]

2 things. First, with regards to the question first posed in the thread: Imagine you're a member of some group or club, for the sake of my audience let's say you're a member of a He-Man Woman Haters Club. First of all you wouldn't allow a non dues paying member to have voting rights. This is why I'm all in favor of having to pay taxes in order to vote. And to take that a step further, I think the more you pay in taxes the more weight your vote should hold. I don't like the idea that Bill Gates' vote can be cancelled out by someone like Precious' mom (although I think we both know who they'd vote for, but you get the point). Secondly, if there was a member of the club who went out and got a girlfriend and started putting up Skeletor posters in the clubhouse, it goes without saying that he'd lose his voting rights and you'd kick him out.

Next point - it looks like the discussion turned towards eduation. If our society wants to fix education, then someone needs to pipe up and tell the parents to step up. I don't care how much money you throw at the problem, nothing's going to work unless the kids are going home to a stable family environment with parents who are involved in their schooling. Same can be said for the opposite: You give a Jewish kid or an Asian kid a tattered 10 yr old textbook, they're still going to ace their midterm.

This is why I hate politics. Long gone are the days of leaders who said what needed to be said, instead we have cowards saying what people want to hear.

 

[Stoked]

2 things. First, with regards to the question first posed in the thread: Imagine you're a member of some group or club, for the sake of my audience let's say you're a member of a He-Man Woman Haters Club. First of all you wouldn't allow a non dues paying member to have voting rights. This is why I'm all in favor of having to pay taxes in order to vote. And to take that a step further, I think the more you pay in taxes the more weight your vote should hold. I don't like the idea that Bill Gates' vote can be cancelled out by someone like Precious' mom (although I think we both know who they'd vote for, but you get the point). Secondly, if there was a member of the club who went out and got a girlfriend and started putting up Skeletor posters in the clubhouse, it goes without saying that he'd lose his voting rights and you'd kick him out.

Next point - it looks like the discussion turned towards eduation. If our society wants to fix education, then someone needs to pipe up and tell the parents to step up. I don't care how much money you throw at the problem, nothing's going to work unless the kids are going home to a stable family environment with parents who are involved in their schooling. Same can be said for the opposite: You give a Jewish kid or an Asian kid a tattered 10 yr old textbook, they're still going to ace their midterm.

This is why I hate politics. Long gone are the days of leaders who said what needed to be said, instead we have cowards saying what people want to hear.

That is where my "draconian measures" comment comes up. Short of forcing parents into that role I do not see it happening.

As for the voting ideas you pitched. That would guarantee that the rich forever control this country.

 

[margodydek]

That is where my "draconian measures" comment comes up. Short of forcing parents into that role I do not see it happening.

As for the voting ideas you pitched. That would guarantee that the rich forever control this country.

My voting ideas were more just tongue-in-cheek.

 

[Stoked]

My voting ideas were more just tongue-in-cheek.

Oh, my bad. Carry on.

 

[One Brow]

All of that is good and all contributes to fixing the problem. However I cannot see us gettign there without curtailing rights and taking draconian measures.

What do you mean? What rights need to be curtailed, and draconian mesures taken, to get better prenatal care, better nutrition, etc.?

 

[SaltyDawg]

Same can be said for the opposite: You give a Jewish kid or an Asian kid a tattered 10 yr old textbook, they're still going to ace their midterm.

As long as the mid term is based on the outdated information in that old textbook.

Just be aware that in many schools the information will be more current, and they will have tablets instead of textbooks. Here's to hoping your kid goes to one of the better ones. And here's to also hoping the better teachers chose your kids' school when they had offers from several of the better schools (if your kid isn't already in one of the better schools).

 

[One Brow]

If our society wants to fix education, then someone needs to pipe up and tell the parents to step up. I don't care how much money you throw at the problem, nothing's going to work unless the kids are going home to a stable family environment with parents who are involved in their schooling.

So, rather than support the parents for the sake of the kids, let the kids suffer so we don't have to support the parents?

My mom didn't have to work 80-hour weeks when I was 2, so she was able to step up then. When I was in high school, she was working 80-hour weeks, but by then my love of learning, foundational skills, etc. had been established. You reverse those time periods, and I'm a very different person with a very different school history.

 

[Stoked]

What do you mean? What rights need to be curtailed, and draconian mesures taken, to get better prenatal care, better nutrition, etc.?

We all know what good nutrition is, good sleeping habits, parental involvement in kids lives and school work.

However a large number of parents do not care and there is no law forcing them to. I do not see them suddenly caring. Do you?

So how do we get there? Short of forcing them I do not see how.

Forcing them as in mandatory nutritional habits at home, required parental involvement in after school activities, forcing parents to do homework with the child at the table after school.

That would put us in a full on draconian state. I am not advocating that approach. I just dont se eit happening short of that or a hugely, monumental change in the American society.

 

[One Brow]

We all know what good nutrition is, good sleeping habits, parental involvement in kids lives and school work.

However a large number of parents do not care and there is no law forcing them to. I do not see them suddenly caring. Do you?

I know some parents truly don't care, but for most, it's a matter of juggling priorities. Full work schedules, basic household maintenance, etc. don't leave much time for doing homework. In many areas, the stores with the biggest selection of groceries are the gas stations, so good nutrition can be harder to come by. Saying the real issue is a lack of caring is victim-blaming.

 

[margodydek]

I know some parents truly don't care, but for most, it's a matter of juggling priorities. Full work schedules, basic household maintenance, etc. don't leave much time for doing homework. In many areas, the stores with the biggest selection of groceries are the gas stations, so good nutrition can be harder to come by. Saying the real issue is a lack of caring is victim-blaming.

I have to think nutrition ranks near the bottom of why our education is on the decline.

 

[Stoked]

I know some parents truly don't care, but for most, it's a matter of juggling priorities. Full work schedules, basic household maintenance, etc. don't leave much time for doing homework. In many areas, the stores with the biggest selection of groceries are the gas stations, so good nutrition can be harder to come by. Saying the real issue is a lack of caring is victim-blaming.

No it is not. Victim blaming would be blaming the kids and I am not.

By going into availability of nutrition and all that you are getting into the fundamental change in our society. Should happen but won't. Even in very bad circumstances parents can still ensure that things liek homework and what not are done.

You can find examples all over the place but that is all they are examples. Not the norm.

Not to clarify I am not saying only inner city schools. I am talking in general about our society in general.

 

[Stoked]

I have to think nutrition ranks near the bottom of why our education is on the decline.

It is just an example of one area that would help. Getting proper nutrition andn sleep helps the kids stay focused and energized during school.