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WWIII, The Mother of all Oil Wars, Shaping Up

Accurately describing what Putin is doing isn’t cynical. He’s actively trying to recreate the Soviet Union. And you’re damn right I’m partisan against a ruthless autocrat like him. If protecting the sovereignty of Ukraine and the Baltic states is partisan, then label me that, please. Why do you like Putin? Why are you cheering for him?

Is it because you’re bored with liberal democracy?
Is it because you don’t think he’s a bad guy?
Or is it because you desire his brand of authoritarianism here in America?

Why are you going to RT to read their translation of what Putin is saying? Like you understand that RT is Putin’s primary propaganda arm to the west, right?
You are lying about me here. Simple as that.

RT is about as good as CNN. But you can't deal with propaganda without reasoned analysis of the validity of positions.

During the end of WWII, we made a treaty with Russia regarding Germany and Eastern Europe. That was a bad treaty. General Patton called the Commies "bastards" and wanted to just keep on rolling to Moscow. During the Korean War, Generfal McArtghur wanted to just take Korea free and clear, and even maybe take on the Russians and Chinese to boot.

You sound like you're crazy for war, but we are not capable of defending places near Russia very well. Putin sees us as weak, Biden as an easy mark.

We should settle for a NATO that is a defensible line, with some independent countries in between. Putin would be smart to take that deal, because he isn't strong enough to take back those former holdings either. A lot of people want their independence.

I hope the escalation of rhetoric gives way to negotiating a reasoned compromise. That would mean, perhaps a pull back of forces from recent additions NATO, no missles placed there no baes othat ground. An agreementnot to permit Ukraine to join NATo,or else Russia will just take ground near the bases on the Black Sea, like they did Crimea.

Then take a new look at our military and build it up so Putin exhausts his funds trying to match us.
 
Far right parties in Ukraine constitute less than .002 percent of the Ukrainian parliament or 1 out of 450 seats.


So where did you get this idea that Nazis are taking over Ukraine?

Oh, gotcha. Putin said it:



Don’t you think that Putin might be exaggerating concerns over nazism and NATO to justify his invasion of ukraine in attempting to restore the Soviet Empire? Like don’t you think that could be a possibility at least?

And

Don’t you think Ukraine might prefer closer ties to The West over Russia given their history?

From Tsar Nicholas’s pogroms:
Stalin’s starving of landowners and Ukrainian elites:
Decades of living under harsh Soviet rule:
The Chernobyl disaster:
Russian interference in elections:
Russian invasion of Crimea:
https://www.history.com/news/crimea-russia-ukraine-annexation
Current Russian authoritarianism:
'Slave labour' in the prisons of eastern Ukraine http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37512356

Gee, why wouldn’t Ukrainians want to stay in this relationship? Like don’t you think Russia’s abusive behavior towards Ukraine might impact their desire to remain close to Russia?

I've worked for a Ukranian-born scientist, have an in-law with family roots there. Good on you to report Stalin's genocide in Ukraine in the 1930s which the NYTimes just ignored while jpushing Stalin as a great new leader.

I dispute the reports on Ukraine's present alignment. You don't have to be a racist skinhead with a swastika on your sleeve to be a fascist. You only need to be working for financial interests contrary to the welfare and rights of ordinary people. Biden's buddies are all that.

Zelensky might have cleaned up some corrupt influencers if Biden hadn't got a deal through with Hunter.

You mistake my position in almost every sense. I am not any kind of pro-communist or advocate for authoritarianism. When the honchos go to war with honchos, it's the little people who die.

I believe our corrupt Establishment has all kinds of unworthy relationships all around the world. Xi, Putin, and our own elites. People have to buy leadership, all pigs in a poke.

I don't think Trump is really all that different. Just not owned outright by the old guard people have been trying to vote out for decades.

When you have a cause to push, it's your game to line up all the ducks you can find to make it fit, but then, imo, the interests you serve forget it all to make new cases on their next project. Just words, no real commitments. That's what todays fascsim is. I have never though Putin much better than Hillary or Obama. Sure they will fight one another to prove "King of the Hill", but it's all "Bowery Wars" like the Aztecs used to run with their "enemies". March the men across the field, kill a bunch, take some prisoners, and enjoy the sight while drinking and pinching pretty butts. It's the ordinary people who die, and who are the slaves. The elites are above all that.

And you push their rhetoric to make the wars justifiable.......
 
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I've worked for Ukranian-born scientist, have an in-law with family roots there. Good on you to report Stalin's genocide in Ukraine in the 1930s which the NYTimes just ignored while jpushing Stalin as a great new leader.

I dispute the reports on Ukraine's present alignment. You don't have to be a racist skinhead with a swastika on your sleeve to be a fascist. You only need to be working for financial interests contrary to the welfare and rights of ordinary people. Biden's buddies are all that.

Zelensky might have cleaned up some corrupt influencers if Biden hadn't got a deal through with Hunter.

You mistake my position in almost every sense. I am not any kind of pro-communist or advocate for authoritarianism. When the honchos go to war with honchos, it's the little people who die.

I bvelieve our corrupt Establishment has all kinds of unworthy relationships all around the world. Xi, Putin, and our own elites. People have to buy leadership, all pigs in a poke.

I don't think Trump is really all that different.
Here's the famous babe has been there done that comment right out of the gate.

The NYT in the 1930s? Do you figure the same people are still in all the same positions 90 years later? You got any links to those 1930s NYT articles?

Love the obsession with Hunter. Dogs got what it thinks is a bone and it's gonna chew that bone. Too bad what you got was a chewy delivered to you by your preferred propaganda outlets.
 
I've worked for Ukranian-born scientist, have an in-law with family roots there. Good on you to report Stalin's genocide in Ukraine in the 1930s which the NYTimes just ignored while jpushing Stalin as a great new leader.

I dispute the reports on Ukraine's present alignment. You don't have to be a racist skinhead with a swastika on your sleeve to be a fascist. You only need to be working for financial interests contrary to the welfare and rights of ordinary people. Biden's buddies are all that.

Zelensky might have cleaned up some corrupt influencers if Biden hadn't got a deal through with Hunter.

You mistake my position in almost every sense. I am not any kind of pro-communist or advocate for authoritarianism. When the honchos go to war with honchos, it's the little people who die.

I believe our corrupt Establishment has all kinds of unworthy relationships all around the world. Xi, Putin, and our own elites. People have to buy leadership, all pigs in a poke.

I don't think Trump is really all that different. Just no owned outright by the old guard people have been trying to vote out for decades.

Here's the famous babe has been there done that comment right out of the gate.

The NYT in the 1930s? Do you figure the same people are still in all the same positions 90 years later? You got any links to those 1930s NYT articles?

Love the obsession with Hunter. Dogs got what it thinks is a bone and it's gonna chew that bone. Too bad what you got was a chewy delivered to you by your preferred propaganda outlets.
Don't be an idiot.

You could just deal with a few facts without the slurs.

Mark Levin talks about the NYT quite a lot,but here is another source.


People come and go, but fixed interests carry on their trade.
 
RT is about as good as CNN.
Bless your heart.
But you can't deal with propaganda without reasoned analysis of the validity of positions.
You get your information from RT, a state owned propaganda source controlled by an oligarch who knows that if he doesn’t toe the line, he’ll end up in prison or dead from drinking radioactive tea. A better source of information would be NPR, The NY Times, The Post, or CNN.
During the end of WWII, we made a treaty with Russia regarding Germany and Eastern Europe. That was a bad treaty. General Patton called the Commies "bastards" and wanted to just keep on rolling to Moscow. During the Korean War, Generfal McArtghur wanted to just take Korea free and clear, and even maybe take on the Russians and Chinese to boot.
Which would've led to another World War, one between two nuclear powers. Millions would have died not to mention the environmental mess.
You sound like you're crazy for war, but we are not capable of defending places near Russia very well. Putin sees us as weak, Biden as an easy mark.
Who's said anything about wanting war? The closest thing I’ve said is to sanction the **** out of Russian financial institutions and oligarchs. Hopefully that brings a change either in decision making if not regime change.
We should settle for a NATO that is a defensible line, with some independent countries in between. Putin would be smart to take that deal, because he isn't strong enough to take back those former holdings either. A lot of people want their independence.
But this isn't about NATO, it's about Ukraine and other former satellites existing. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
I hope the escalation of rhetoric gives way to negotiating a reasoned compromise. That would mean, perhaps a pull back of forces from recent additions NATO, no missles placed there no baes othat ground. An agreementnot to permit Ukraine to join NATo,or else Russia will just take ground near the bases on the Black Sea, like they did Crimea.
Compromise? What is there to compromise on here? Russia is slowly swallowing up former satellites. Where will this stop? Once the Soviet Union is recreated? Once Russia takes over Poland and Scandinavian countries?
Then take a new look at our military and build it up so Putin exhausts his funds trying to match us.
Why would Putin need to build up a military when he can bully nations around and dolts like you demand that western countries compromise?
 
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Don't be an idiot.

You could just deal with a few facts without the slurs.

Mark Levin talks about the NYT quite a lot,but here is another source.


People come and go, but fixed interests carry on their trade.
Mark Levin is a poor source of information. As one can easily observe here:

 
I've worked for a Ukranian-born scientist, have an in-law with family roots there. Good on you to report Stalin's genocide in Ukraine in the 1930s which the NYTimes just ignored while jpushing Stalin as a great new leader.
What? Is there a point you’re trying to make here?
I dispute the reports on Ukraine's present alignment. You don't have to be a racist skinhead with a swastika on your sleeve to be a fascist. You only need to be working for financial interests contrary to the welfare and rights of ordinary people. Biden's buddies are all that.
You're repeating Putin's lies again. The fascist party in Ukraine holds 1 seat out of 450.

Besides that, shouldn't it be the Ukrainian people whether they be fascists, communists, or democrats, not Putin, who decide on what the welfare and rights of the Ukrainian people should be? Why do you support Putin's decision to usurp this right from the Ukrainian people?
Zelensky might have cleaned up some corrupt influencers if Biden hadn't got a deal through with Hunter.
Oh boy... Here we go... As if this horse hasn't been beaten to death already. Sheesh
You mistake my position in almost every sense. I am not any kind of pro-communist or advocate for authoritarianism. When the honchos go to war with honchos, it's the little people who die.
Putin kills people. Lots of people. I don't think you'd find living in Putin's authoritarianism better than living in Ukraine's struggling liberal democracy. At least Ukrainians still can choose who their leaders are while in Russia, elections don't matter.
I believe our corrupt Establishment has all kinds of unworthy relationships all around the world. Xi, Putin, and our own elites. People have to buy leadership, all pigs in a poke.
Yawn, endless cynicism. Our "corrupt establishment" is still better than Putin's corrupt kleptocracy or Xi's corrupt repressive authoritarianism.
I don't think Trump is really all that different. Just not owned outright by the old guard people have been trying to vote out for decades.
LOL. Imagine typing this with a straight face.

We've never had a president as compromised as Trump. From his campaign working with Russians in 2016 to his financials to his placating to Putin. You ignore inconvenient facts to support your warped cynical narrative of bashing America and it's liberal democracy. You ignore Trump's blatant corruption and illiberal tendencies.
When you have a cause to push, it's your game to line up all the ducks you can find to make it fit, but then, imo, the interests you serve forget it all to make new cases on their next project. Just words, no real commitments. That's what todays fascsim is.
I don't think you know what fascism is or what it means.
I have never though Putin much better than Hillary or Obama.
Putin is far worse than Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. You're an absolute ignorant ******* if you think either of those Americans are anything close to that monster.
Sure they will fight one another to prove "King of the Hill", but it's all "Bowery Wars" like the Aztecs used to run with their "enemies". March the men across the field, kill a bunch, take some prisoners, and enjoy the sight while drinking and pinching pretty butts. It's the ordinary people who die, and who are the slaves. The elites are above all that.

And you push their rhetoric to make the wars justifiable.......
1645669311910.png

Serious question, have you ever traveled to a foreign country?
 
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Massive explosions being reported in cities across Ukraine right now. Kyiv is one of them. Weird, I thought Putin was only “liberating” some of the eastern parts? He wouldn’t have lied, would he? He wouldn’t want to destroy Ukraine’s independence because he doesn’t believe it should exist, would he?
 
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Bless your heart.

You get your information from RT, a state owned propaganda source controlled by an oligarch who knows that if he doesn’t toe the line, he’ll end up in prison or dead from drinking radioactive tea. A better source of information would be NPR, The NY Times, The Post, or CNN.

Which would've led to another World War, one between two nuclear powers. Millions would have died not to mention the environmental mess.

Who's said anything about wanting war? The closest thing I’ve said is to sanction the **** out of Russian financial institutions and oligarchs. Hopefully that brings a change either in decision making if not regime change.

But this isn't about NATO, it's about Ukraine and other former satellites existing. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

Compromise? What is there to compromise on here? Russia is slowly swallowing up former satellites. Where will this stop? Once the Soviet Union is recreated? Once Russia takes over Poland and Scandinavian countries?

Why would Putin need to build up a military when he can bully nations around and dolts like you demand that western countries compromise?

I find this series of questions entirely committed to a partisan US view. As You well know, I am not a fan of the UN/US/UJ version of the New World Order. I am a Constitutional advocate of global human rights and restricted or limited governance. This does make me a supporter of Putin or Xi, or any brand of communist ideologue whose views cannot be consistent with a limited government.

I read CNN more than I read RT, and I find that US media is pretty much operating as propaganda retailer for globalist interests. Trump is attacked as an outsider of that control group. Putin is attacked as an opponent of that control group, even though he has a lot of Marxist views mixed in with his pretend Russian nationalist agenda. He favors Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran, North Korea, Iran, and practically "owns" Syria. He seems to believe that Islamic fundamentalism is "bad" and opposes, in public view, terrorism though he may use it behind the scenes. Russian intelligence has warned us of many terrorist threats and coming attacks against us, most of which warnings have been ignored by our "intelligence" only to find out too late it was good information. What has caught my attention about Putin is his reaction from 2014 to the allegedly Western-backed coup in Ukraine, in 2014, amid gleeful Western and NATO reports that now Ukraine would become a member of NATO.

Putin said then that the UN or "New World Order" was not "New Law" or a new system of governance, but "No Law". By "No Law" he meant the controlling powers of the UN and New World Order had broken its assurances of not pushing the NATO alliance into former Soviet States and positioning military including missiles much closer to Moscow. So, he called the interests behind that push "Thugs" and started saying they intended to do whatever they wanted.

In my opinion, Western interests are driving to secure Russian Oil within their control and basically eliminate real Russian interests, and Russian independence.

Until the Maidan coup, Russia made no effective resistance to NATO expansion. Consequent to that coup in Ukraine, Russia has improved its military, dropped its nuclear treaty commitments, and build new missiles with nuke capacity. Prior to these new missiles, we could boast that we could shoot down anything launched from anywhere on planet earth. It appears that Iran will have these missiles, and that China and NK already do.

Putin has apparently got some backing from China, and they are working on transportation links and pipelines for oil and gas.

I don't think Russia and/or China are capable of holding peripheral territories like the former USSR states, or places like Japan, Vietnam, or Taiwan. Going into those areas would have huge personnel costs and involve major military outlays. I think we would see a bunch of new Afghanistans. I don't think Putin can take or hold Ukraine on any long-term basis. Even Luhansk and Donetsk would be very pricey holdings.

I think he wants a treaty that rolls back NATO a few steps. and keeps missiles and tanks further from Moscow, and clear title to all the Russian oil. Which I believe he thinks would mean, long term, the rise of a Russia/China combo to displace the US/UK alliance in world geopolitics as top dog.

Our leaders are already getting edgy about China's projections of new bases and relationships (colonies); worldwide.

If we are going to have a future, it will have to come from actually being honest and actually honoring ours treaty duties, wnd building a stronger military than anyone orany set of nations. J. William Fulbright posed another path in his book j"The Arrogance of Power" that I think essentially games out as letting China and a few other "powers" believe they have the lead, and then letting the rest of the world nip at their heels.

Either way, I believe, there is no real peace and continual war.

and no truth. "No Law" and "No Truth">
 
Neither Russia nor China have any kind of legal tradition or framework for human rights. And the West is now losing ours. Our globalist, or imo "fascist" interests are attacking freedom of speech and other aspects essential to human liberty,and we are becoming just as bad.

If we are going to keep our human rights, we must reverse that trend here and throughout the West,, and keep our military strong enough to deter aggression by other powers like Russia and China. And use our powers to support genuine and honorable governance where we can find it. The UN is itself a fascist organization, with no democratic root, no elected officers that are accountable to people, who can be "voted out".

We need an international organization that can promote democdracy and limit government powers generally to protect human rights. No thugs. No Xi, No Putin, no Hillary or Obama. No Queen, no Empire. Local governance answerable and subject to local people.

Local government restricted and subject to laws against corrupt dealings. The same from there on up through every essential level of governance.
What? Is there a point you’re trying to make here?

You're repeating Putin's lies again. The fascist party in Ukraine holds 1 seat out of 450.

Besides that, shouldn't it be the Ukrainian people whether they be fascists, communists, or democrats, not Putin, who decide on what the welfare and rights of the Ukrainian people should be? Why do you support Putin's decision to usurp this right from the Ukrainian people?

Oh boy... Here we go... As if this horse hasn't been beaten to death already. Sheesh

Putin kills people. Lots of people. I don't think you'd find living in Putin's authoritarianism better than living in Ukraine's struggling liberal democracy. At least Ukrainians still can choose who their leaders are while in Russia, elections don't matter.

Yawn, endless cynicism. Our "corrupt establishment" is still better than Putin's corrupt kleptocracy or Xi's corrupt repressive authoritarianism.

LOL. Imagine typing this with a straight face.

We've never had a president as compromised as Trump. From his campaign working with Russians in 2016 to his financials to his placating to Putin. You ignore inconvenient facts to support your warped cynical narrative of bashing America and it's liberal democracy. You ignore Trump's blatant corruption and illiberal tendencies.

I don't think you know what fascism is or what it means.

Putin is far worse than Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. You're an absolute ignorant ******* if you think either of those Americans are anything close to that monster.

View attachment 11760

Serious question, have you ever traveled to a foreign country?
I have.

And I have friends and contacts in almost every country in this world, who tell me what they see. Some cases, from both sides of local issues.

Most Russians who have come here, believe it or not, have rejected Marxism and are American conservatives. Unless they have some money or position that compromises their principles.

Now comes Game with his conspiracy theories that I make up stuff. I do think and listen to others. In most cases I'm more like a fly on the wall seeing what is happening. I don't have as many eyes, or wings, though.

I have long viewed Hillary and Obama not as real "Marxist" but as wholly-owned opportunists. With deep connections throughout our bureaucracy and financial system. Rockefeller people.

I have long viewed the Cold War or the Free/Commie Divide, as essentially a manipulated system controlled, for the lack of a single head, by corrupt interests.

Keeping China and Russia in mothballs for decades, and their peoples enslaved, was essential to continued British Imperialism under the false flag of an "inept' or "ineffective" UN. British and American interests could prevail. Beginning around the 1960s, though, Fulbright's warning about the risks of an obvious superpower has caused those interests to bring China into the fold economically. The was an intent to bring Russia in too, but Putin went againsst that.

He has adopted a variation of the Rockefeller plan (Use Theirs First) regarding oil. "Just Wait", and knows that when we run out, he will have it all. Our new technology like fracking will float us for a while though. We have been freezing Russia out of new technology for oil in a futile effort tolimit Russian dominance in that market.

So we are trying to build a future without oil. LOL. Or take Russian's oil.
 
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Mark Levin is a poor source of information. As one can easily observe here:


You throw **** out where you have no defense from the fact. The subject above was the New York Times and their key man in Moscow, Durante, in the years of the Ukraine famine deliberately created by Stalin to starve some outlying regions into submission. Ukraine lost an estimated 4M lives in Stalin's genocide then. Durante and the NYT refused to publish anything about it.

Levin would simply be done with Putin as a bloodthirsty dictator no better than Stalin.

But Levin is right in that video about the facts regading Mueller and Trump. We have a lot more substantial information about the whole Trump impeachment drive now. You really need to revise your rhetoric.

My position on Ukraine boils down to a mess that will result in more hardships for Ukraine. A mess we have made with bad diplomacy since WWII. I have tried to make Russian concerns understandable, but the crew in here is wanting to ramp up rhetorical war fever. To deal successfully in the Ukraine crisis or war now, we can keep Ukraine independent, even Luhansk and Donetsk, with those areas still under an independent Ukraine, by settling with Russia on NATO issues and getting a new mutually-verifiable nuke treaty.

The price we pay? We have to give up designs on reducing Russia and taking control of Russian resources like oil.

Considering the measures Stalin had to resort to in creating the USSR evenbefore WWII, I imagine Putin might realize his "ambitions" unrealistic even today. For sure he would be likely to keep them on the back burner we were stronger and less threatening.

Ukraine is a bad idea for Russia as much as it is for NATO.
 
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