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fishonjazz said:
Then you give them a few years experience.... I think this team would be better than portland was this year, better than Indiana, dallas, atlanta, boston, and maybe a few other playoff teams.
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This is laughable at worst.
 
What if last summer the jazz went out and broke the bank and picked up 3 upper level free agents. (lets just say 3 players at the level of carroll, mathews, and danny green. Not those guys specifically but guys that are about that good and that sought after by teams and about that price)
Then what if 2 of the 3 guys had major injuries and one of them missed the whole year and the other one missed over 50 games. Then the 3rd guy had a hard time gelling with his new teammates and struggled all year with consistency and chemistry in the new offense and defense that he had to learn with the jazz team.
Now i think that you guys would have praised what DL had did and then when we dont really get any better and miss the playoffs again and were asked "why didn't that master plan of going after free agents work out?" you would answer that getting those free agents was the right move it just didn't work out because of injuries and guys not knowing the system or having chemistry with their teammates so they havent lived up their potential play that we expected when we aquired them. And you would be right.

See just like the 2 injured guys and the one guy that was having a hard time fitting in and learning the plays and stuff, exum and burks are the 2 injured guys. Injuries stopped them from living up to the potential that fans and jazz management expected. Lyles is the new guy that had to learn where he fit with the team and get chemistry down and so didn't live up to the potential that he has (started to show it at the end of the season though). Gobert is in both situations. He was injured a lot and he is still pretty new and trying to learn what he is doing and both things kept him from reaching his potential.

This not reaching potential right off the bat thing is not exclusive to super young guys or our super youngs specifically. Other teams have super young guys that they need to wait on to reach their potential. Even when teams acquire a free agent that they expect to be really good it can take that player awhile to figure things out (kevin love) or they can get hurt (carroll)

If the jazz had been active in free agency it does not mean that they are automatically better. Those free agent pick up can get injured or be busts on their new team. The jazz have aquired good talent through the draft rather than free agency and trades but they still acquired good talent. Just hasn't been healthy or experienced enough. Its coming soon.
 
Also, all those that think Favors and Hayward will stay. When was the last time a half decent UFA resigned with the Jazz? Andre, Karl, John? LOL (Not including extensions).

We don't have a great record of keeping decent players. Hayward WILL NOT resign with the Jazz. He's already made his money and he'll play where he'd like to play
 
GVC said:
The current team missed the playoffs, despite playing in an uncharacteristically weak Western Conference.
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I didnt say anything about strength of conference. I said that if they had an average amount of injuries they would have made the playoffs. I stand by that. And with one of the youngest teams in the league. Pretty good imo. We agree to disagree on that i guess.
 
Shad said:
Also, all those that think Favors and Hayward will stay. When was the last time a half decent UFA resigned with the Jazz? Andre, Karl, John? LOL (Not including extensions).

We don't have a great record of keeping decent players. Hayward WILL NOT resign with the Jazz. He's already made his money and he'll play where he'd like to play
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You need to stop living in past. have fun. Be optimistic about the future. Its way more fun. No matter what happened in the past, the future is still a mystery.
I wonder if oakland warriors fans a few years back were like "man we have sucked for quite a while now... im sure we will just suck forever since we have sucked in the past"
 
Shad said:
This is laughable at worst.
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Not to me it isn't. Like i said before, I think our players are better than you think they are. Our opinions about the team will stay different as long as that is the case.
 
GVC said:
Favors has two years left on his contract. He'll be an unrestricted free agent in 2018.
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So i said two years right? Lets see. 16-17 season would be one year. 17-18 season would be year two. Did i do the math right?
 
Well, I hate to be a realist on you but the team is mediocre at best even when healthy. This is a business and not just about basketball and our 2 best player's contracts are up in 2 years so get ready for either more "give us 10 more years of rebuilding" or shoot for the stars now.
 
Shad said:
Well, I hate to be a realist on you but the team is mediocre at best even when healthy. This is a business and not just about basketball and our 2 best player's contracts are up in 2 years so get ready for either more "give us 10 more years of rebuilding" or shoot for the stars now.
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nah, in two years (favors last year of his contract) our team will be good enough, experienced enough, familiar enough with the coaches and each other, and hopefully healthy enough to be really good. Favors will want to stay with what he helped build.
 
fishonjazz said:
So i said two years right? Lets see. 16-17 season would be one year. 17-18 season would be year two. Did i do the math right?
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You said Favors couldn't leave within two more years. He'll be an unrestricted free agent in two more years. So...yeah, you ****ed up.
 
fishonjazz said:
I don't think we will. We will be good soon.
Hood lyles burks exum gobert favors will all want to stay. Favors loves it here and took a discount. Burks is under contract for a while and I think he likes it here. In two years exum, hood, lyles, gobert, burks, and favors all might be much better players than they are now. We will be winning enough in two years for them to want to stay.

We just barely acquired a lot of our guys. They are so young. Gotta give them a few years and some health.

Favors and hayward are the vets and they are both high quality nba players. What happens when we still have hayward and favors (with more experience) and lyles, hood, exum, gobert, and Burks all have a large amount of minutes under their belt to the point that they are young vets instead of only having played as much as rookies and sophmores.

Gobert, hood, exum, and lyles all show lots of potential and have such a low, amount of total minutes played. They are babies in the nba. Even hood and gobert who are a bit older age wise have not played much total nba minutes in their careers.

Hell with burks injuries and constant bench role he really doesn't have all that many minutes either.

The core is still really young despite the fact that favors and hayward seem like old vets apparently.
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You've been selling the yungins will be good someday trust me guys pitch for far too long. No, no they won't. Those who can put aside their Jazz bias and those on the outside looking in know what we have.

Burks - role player
Exum - #4 pick bust
Gobert - pretty good, awesome dude but no cornerstone and not a well rounded player
Favors - solid, middle of the road piece, somewhat efficient
Hayward - solid, middle of the road piece, somewhat efficient
Hood - the only wildcard in the deck atm

That's not a rebuild, that's a bludgeoning of the fanbases trust. You and [MENTION=1988]Stoked[/MENTION] and the likes can continue your starry eyed love for the franchise and I applaud you for your willingness to find some charm in maggots. I, however, find it quite silly to pledge my blind devotion to a team that continues blunder after blunder, and an ownership group who is well known for keeping the franchise only to benefit their greasy car sales business. And if you don't think LHM was the greasiest person on the planet you likely don't know an actual thing about the guy. The guy even admitted to screwing John and Karl out of a championship. Personally, I hope the team gets sold.
 
GVC said:
You said Favors couldn't leave within two more years. He'll be an unrestricted free agent in two more years. So...yeah, you ****ed up.
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You're way to technial if you take two years to mean 730 calendar days with in the context of the discussion, which was me telling him that in 2 years (2 years in this case obviously meaning seasons since we are discussing basketball games) the jazz will be really good. He said favors would be gone in two years (seasons). I knew he was under contact for 2 more seasons. I still beleive that to be true and still believe that in two years (seasons, 17-18 one to be exact) we will be really good and favors will want to stay.
 
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Nate505 said:
People love the Warriors. Try them. Or the Celtics look like a good up and comer. And if you want to stay truly hated around here, be a Thunder fan.
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How about I pick a way less loved/hated character like Trevor Booker and whine for years when he's gone. Those troll jobs seem really easy but that one would be over-the-top lame to the point I might actually find humor in it.
 
franklin said:
You've been selling the yungins will be good someday trust me guys pitch for far too long. No, no they won't. Those who can put aside their Jazz bias and those on the outside looking in know what we have.

Burks - role player
Exum - #4 pick bust
Gobert - pretty good, awesome dude but no cornerstone and not a well rounded player
Favors - solid, middle of the road piece, somewhat efficient
Hayward - solid, middle of the road piece, somewhat efficient
Hood - the only wildcard in the deck atm

That's not a rebuild, that's a bludgeoning of the fanbases trust. You and [MENTION=1988]Stoked[/MENTION] and the likes can continue your starry eyed love for the franchise and I applaud you for your willingness to find some charm in maggots. I, however, find it quite silly to pledge my blind devotion to a team that continues blunder after blunder, and an ownership group who is well known for keeping the franchise only to benefit their greasy car sales business. And if you don't think LHM was the greasiest person on the planet you likely don't know an actual thing about the guy. The guy even admitted to screwing John and Karl out of a championship. Personally, I hope the team gets sold.
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We disagree. Yes I have been selling the young ones for a while now. And last year was a playoff team without the injuries and a super young team as well.
What we have been waiting for is coming. (If what you have been waiting for isn't being a championship contender anyway).
It's gonna be ok
 
I just wanted to say fishionjazz is killing it in this thread.

I don't really see the point of bitching about the Jazz and announcing you're looking for another team. Go find another team. Nobody cares.

We were spoiled with success for a loooonnnnngggg time. A long rebuild doesn't sit well with Jazz fans. It makes sense. I'm of the opinion Corbin and Kanter set the franchise back and Quin and DL are picking up the pieces.
 
Will the people whining be happy when the team wins 48-50 games this year ?? Or will that still not be good enough ?
 
GVC said:
Burks and Exum arguably aren't upgrades over the players who played to end this past season (Mack/Neto, Gordo/Hood/Ingles). The West was also surprisingly weak in the middle (after the top 4), which is unlikely to continue this coming season. The Jazz won't crack 50 wins or a top-4 seed without some major talent upgrades. Additional depth won't move the needle very much.
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We can agree to disagree. I think Exum is going to be very solid. Not Westbrook solid per se but a night and day difference over his rookie year (and what we had this year, especially on the defensive end), and eventually, very, very good.

Think about it. We won 40 games this year with what was basically a 3rd string point guard at the helm for 82 games, a backup 6th man at the reins for 50+ games, and significant time missed from each of our two starting bigs. All that with little depth to begin with. Add in all those close losses which, according to someone like Kicky who you respect, balance out over the course of a year except they didn't balance out this year. Oh yeah, and we were the second youngest team in the league. The way I see it, better health equates into another 4-5 wins, finishing closer to or at .500 in very close games equates to 2-3 more wins, and organic growth equates into 2-4 more wins, which puts us around 8-12 more wins. Middle that and we're looking at 50 wins. I'm not stupid enough to think this is some exact science and I recognize our teams flaws and also recognize that injuries are gonna happen. But this season was a bit of a perfect storm of little depth/youth accompanied by injuries to **** us. This year, we have more experience, more hunger (is that another 1-2 wins?), better depth (can't be worse), and better health(again, can it be any worse?), plus the decline (right?) of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio, at least a little bit.

The way I see it, if the Jazz OU is anywhere at 43.5 or lower, I am gonna bang it for as much as I can. Like literally, possibly 5-10K.

In short, I think our combination of organic growth, improved health, better depth through the draft and maybe free agency, a more desperate attitude from the players and coaching, as well as a decline from some other teams, will net much improved production. My prediction? I'll pull back a tiny bit. 48-34, the 5 seed and a first round exit in 6 games.
 
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Cunning Linguist said:
We can agree to disagree. I think Exum is going to be very solid. Not Westbrook solid per se but a night and day difference over his rookie year (and what we had this year, especially on the defensive end), and eventually, very, very good.

Think about it. We won 40 games this year with all those injuries and all those close losses which, according to someone like Kicky who you respect, balance out over the course of a year. They didn't balance out this year though. Oh yeah, and we were the second youngest team in the league. The way I see it, better health equates into another 4-5 wins, finishing closer to or at .500 in very close games equates to 2-3 more wins, and organic growth equates into 2-4 more wins, which puts us around 8-12 more wins. Middle that and we're looking at 50 wins. I'm not stupid enough to think this is some exact science and I recognize our teams flaws and also recognize that injuries are gonna happen. But this season was a bit of a perfect storm of little depth/youth accompanied by injuries to **** us. This year, we have more experience, more hunger (is that another 1-2 wins?), better depth (can't be worse), and better health(again, can it be any worse?)...The way I see it, if the Jazz OU is anywhere at 43.5 or lower, I am gonna bang it for as much as I can. Like literally, possibly 5-10K.

In short, I think our combination of organic growth, improved health, better depth through the draft and maybe free agency, and more desperate attitude from the players and coaching will net production. My prediction? I'll pull back a tiny bit. 48-34.
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Great post.
 
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