Looking for a new team

[FalseFlagg K]

Will the people whining be happy when the team wins 48-50 games this year ?? Or will that still not be good enough ?

 

[Miggs]

Burks and Exum arguably aren't upgrades over the players who played to end this past season (Mack/Neto, Gordo/Hood/Ingles). The West was also surprisingly weak in the middle (after the top 4), which is unlikely to continue this coming season. The Jazz won't crack 50 wins or a top-4 seed without some major talent upgrades. Additional depth won't move the needle very much.

We can agree to disagree. I think Exum is going to be very solid. Not Westbrook solid per se but a night and day difference over his rookie year (and what we had this year, especially on the defensive end), and eventually, very, very good.

Think about it. We won 40 games this year with what was basically a 3rd string point guard at the helm for 82 games, a backup 6th man at the reins for 50+ games, and significant time missed from each of our two starting bigs. All that with little depth to begin with. Add in all those close losses which, according to someone like Kicky who you respect, balance out over the course of a year except they didn't balance out this year. Oh yeah, and we were the second youngest team in the league. The way I see it, better health equates into another 4-5 wins, finishing closer to or at .500 in very close games equates to 2-3 more wins, and organic growth equates into 2-4 more wins, which puts us around 8-12 more wins. Middle that and we're looking at 50 wins. I'm not stupid enough to think this is some exact science and I recognize our teams flaws and also recognize that injuries are gonna happen. But this season was a bit of a perfect storm of little depth/youth accompanied by injuries to **** us. This year, we have more experience, more hunger (is that another 1-2 wins?), better depth (can't be worse), and better health(again, can it be any worse?), plus the decline (right?) of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio, at least a little bit.

The way I see it, if the Jazz OU is anywhere at 43.5 or lower, I am gonna bang it for as much as I can. Like literally, possibly 5-10K.

In short, I think our combination of organic growth, improved health, better depth through the draft and maybe free agency, a more desperate attitude from the players and coaching, as well as a decline from some other teams, will net much improved production. My prediction? I'll pull back a tiny bit. 48-34, the 5 seed and a first round exit in 6 games.

 

[fishonjazz]

We can agree to disagree. I think Exum is going to be very solid. Not Westbrook solid per se but a night and day difference over his rookie year (and what we had this year, especially on the defensive end), and eventually, very, very good.

Think about it. We won 40 games this year with all those injuries and all those close losses which, according to someone like Kicky who you respect, balance out over the course of a year. They didn't balance out this year though. Oh yeah, and we were the second youngest team in the league. The way I see it, better health equates into another 4-5 wins, finishing closer to or at .500 in very close games equates to 2-3 more wins, and organic growth equates into 2-4 more wins, which puts us around 8-12 more wins. Middle that and we're looking at 50 wins. I'm not stupid enough to think this is some exact science and I recognize our teams flaws and also recognize that injuries are gonna happen. But this season was a bit of a perfect storm of little depth/youth accompanied by injuries to **** us. This year, we have more experience, more hunger (is that another 1-2 wins?), better depth (can't be worse), and better health(again, can it be any worse?)...The way I see it, if the Jazz OU is anywhere at 43.5 or lower, I am gonna bang it for as much as I can. Like literally, possibly 5-10K.

In short, I think our combination of organic growth, improved health, better depth through the draft and maybe free agency, and more desperate attitude from the players and coaching will net production. My prediction? I'll pull back a tiny bit. 48-34.

Great post.

 

[Jazz and Utes]

The tough times are what make the great times so great. 100% success is boring.

 

[Boris]

We can agree to disagree. I think Exum is going to be very solid. Not Westbrook solid per se but a night and day difference over his rookie year (and what we had this year, especially on the defensive end), and eventually, very, very good.

Think about it. We won 40 games this year with what was basically a 3rd string point guard at the helm for 82 games, a backup 6th man at the reins for 50+ games, and significant time missed from each of our two starting bigs. All that with little depth to begin with. Add in all those close losses which, according to someone like Kicky who you respect, balance out over the course of a year except they didn't balance out this year. Oh yeah, and we were the second youngest team in the league. The way I see it, better health equates into another 4-5 wins, finishing closer to or at .500 in very close games equates to 2-3 more wins, and organic growth equates into 2-4 more wins, which puts us around 8-12 more wins. Middle that and we're looking at 50 wins. I'm not stupid enough to think this is some exact science and I recognize our teams flaws and also recognize that injuries are gonna happen. But this season was a bit of a perfect storm of little depth/youth accompanied by injuries to **** us. This year, we have more experience, more hunger (is that another 1-2 wins?), better depth (can't be worse), and better health(again, can it be any worse?), plus the decline (right?) of Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio, at least a little bit.

The way I see it, if the Jazz OU is anywhere at 43.5 or lower, I am gonna bang it for as much as I can. Like literally, possibly 5-10K.

In short, I think our combination of organic growth, improved health, better depth through the draft and maybe free agency, a more desperate attitude from the players and coaching, as well as a decline from some other teams, will net much improved production. My prediction? I'll pull back a tiny bit. 48-34, the 5 seed and a forst round exit in 6 games.

This this this.

50 wins easy w Exum and health and fortified bench. Cunning you did not ever mention improvements for Hood n Lyles. They are gonna break out in 2017.

Imagine when we get Durant. Suddenly we go from 50 wins to 60-62 and op will be crying as her ex-jazz kill her new team. Next offseason Durants buddy Westbrook signs and we trade Hayward for bench pieces.

Westbrook, Exum
Hood, Burks
Someone Deng?
Durant, Favors
Gobert, Favors

Nobody will beat that team.

 

[Jamezz]

Thank god we'll always have the Bees.

 

[Stoked]

Lol [MENTION=578]franklin[/MENTION] name dropping in an attempt to make his posts carry weight.


We can ignore the fact that in many of his stances (as far as individual players) I've openly agreed with for months now. But let's ignore that for the agenda.

 

[Ron Mexico]

We disagree. Yes I have been selling the young ones for a while now. And last year was a playoff team without the injuries and a super young team as well.
What we have been waiting for is coming. (If what you have been waiting for isn't being a championship contender anyway).
It's gonna be ok

We havent been selling the young ones for too long since they are still really young and none of them have hit their peak. Just silly to call a player as young as Exum a bust. But Frank is good at what he does.

 

[Stoked]

and GVC is right about Dennis Lindsey. The dudes best acquisition in almost 4-5 years is Shelvin Mack who would only pass the water on a Hawks team LOL

Agreed. DL has not shown anything on the trade market in what 3 seasons now? All evidence points to him being weak in that area. If that's true it's not good for the Jazz.

 

[Ron Mexico]

A few responses in edited order (with one earlier quote):

From earlier in the thread:

From your previous post:
I've seen these particular double-think arguments frequently on this site. You can't have it both ways. Why was it wrong to dump lame-duck vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2012, but right to not add vets to give young players more time to play and develop in 2015?


You don't 'tank' for a mid-first when you already have a team loaded with middling talent. The Jazz need to add more high-end talent. My preference would be to acquire talent via free agency and trades (as opposed to through tanking). The Jazz have chosen the middle road of neither tanking nor consolidating and adding talent through trade and free agency. It's the worst possible option.


KOC was a terrific GM. I'm not sure what his record has to do with DL's ability.


1. The extra money is only in the form of an additional year and slightly higher raises.

2. His opinion of the team/organization/teammates is pure speculation. Players are smart enough to play nice, as doing otherwise generally devalues them. He may be itching to leave, and he's already signed one contract (offer sheet) with another team. We'll have to wait and see (although Frank linking to some of his statements in the OP would be helpful).

3. The 5th seed is the ceiling for this team next season. There may be better teams with cap space next summer.

I said maybe they could have traded them earlier for more. I didnt say what I thought they should have done. I think they should have traded them for picks much earlier. Or not traded for Big Al and gone into tank mode then. So its the same.

Also I disagree about Hayward. It is all speculation him leaving or staying but all signs point to him staying. I also trust the FO to evaluate him staying or leaving properly and move him. An extra year and higher raises is significant. A lot of players do not walk away from that. Most players are willing to get paid less to chase a ring are much older than Hayward.

I disagree that 5th seed is the ceiling for this team next year. I think the ceiling is higher and I think a 5th seed is likely if we stay healthy and make a couple decent but minor moves in FA or trades. Guess that is where we see a difference. I think we have a solid young team that is going to grow and be good. You see this team as close to their ceiling already. This year we missed the 5th seed by 4 games and we had lots of injuries, bad breaks and no bench or vets. I dont see us being at Portlands level as our our ceiling next year, I think it is higher. I also think we will continue to get much better even if we keep the same players and make no moves for at least 4 more years.

 

[Shad]

Look, I like the Jazz. Everyone on this forum basically does too. Some of us are sick and tired about "well, if we were healthy" or "give us X amount of years and we will be fine." The fact is we aren't. Some people throw the term tanking for us which I don't think we ever honestly did. I just think we are that bad. This team is injury prone. I can unfortunately say someone will go down this up coming year and we all will get to hear all the jazzfanz for another season "WELL, IF SO AND SO DIDNT GET HURT WE WOULD BE A 5TH SEED." There's really always been someone constantly injured (not their fault) so expect it for the coming year

 

[GVC]

You're way to technial if you take two years to mean 730 calendar days with in the context of the discussion, which was me telling him that in 2 years (2 years in this case obviously meaning seasons since we are discussing basketball games) the jazz will be really good. He said favors would be gone in two years (seasons). I knew he was under contact for 2 more seasons. I still beleive that to be true and still believe that in two years (seasons, 17-18 one to be exact) we will be really good and favors will want to stay.

But you said 'can't' not 'won't'. Whatever, doesn't matter.