Zach Lowe: Paul George would love to play with Gordon Hayward

[idiot]

I'm genuinely torn between the idea of PG and Love. I think people (including me) have been underestimating Love's defense. I think Love on the Jazz may produce more regular season wins. He's both hugely productive and efficient. But the matchup with GS terrifies me (though we if we got PG, we might be running a lot of the PF time with Lyles -- yikes!).

But the thing nobody's been talking about is the luxury tax. If we managed Hill at $21M and Ingles at $12M (I'm not sure we can ask for much more discount than that), we'd be more than $5M over the tax threshold with 5 roster spots (including rookie salaries) left to fill. When I first advocated taking a shot at PG, it was with the idea that his presence would put you into the luxury tax and then out after one year, before repeater taxes set in. (This is based on managing to keep Hood, Neto and to drop Withey, Mack, Diaw, Burks, and Favors). Then Love's salary is $3M more than George's for an extra year.

So I think I'd prefer the PG flier, though given the finances, would fully understand why DL may not want to go there.

 

[LoPo]

I personally think this is all a ploy to get PG to Cleveland. By saying this thing about leaving, it puts the pressure on Indy to trade him. It also makes him look like a stand up guy and not leave Indy in OKC land if he leaves in 2018.

Cleveland makes sense because they will do anything to win. They rented Mozgov, Love (who re-signed), Korver, etc. If PG went to Cleveland and left, nobody would think poorly of either side. If somebody else trades for PG and he leaves, it would be like - what the hell are you thinking?

I think PG wants to go to Cleveland for a 1 maybe 2 year title shot but just doesn't want to come out and say it. The Pacers reached out to Cleveland immediately yesterday for a reason.

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[idiot]

A few other questions I'm sure that DL is asking (beyond what either move might do with Hayward):

Does George Hill like playing with Paul George? Would PG make Hill more likely to re-sign? Any hope of a discount?

Does Kevin Love move the meter either way for Hill?

Is there any reason to think Gobert and the rest of the Jazz defense could better compensate for Love's defensive shortcomings than the Cavs were able to (esp. vs. Golden State)?

If George Hill is less likely to sign with the Jazz (because of financial reasons), is it worth the risk? Are Bledsoe or Rubio or even Teodosic realistic options?

Is Ingles up for a substantial discount (I think most of us assume he might do a small one under most circumstances) for adding a chance to win bigger? Or would we have to/want to jettison Ingles if we could get PG?

 

[fishonjazz]

Wait, people on here are willing to trade favors/hood/picks for a 1 year rental on PG? LOL

A. We would be trading hood/favors/picks for Paul george AND Gordon hayward (getting pg convinces hayward to stay in this scenario)

B. You realize that there is a decent chance that favors and hood are one year rentals too right?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think where Love would make more sense is if you weren't sure Hayward re-signs even if we got George. Love is good for us regardless of what Hayward does.

I think getting George would almost guarantee Hayward stays, but who knows.

 

[infection]

Burks, Hood and two picks for George.

Favors, Diaw, Lyles and a first and second for Love.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Burks, Hood and two picks for George.

Favors, Diaw, Lyles and a first and second for Love.

I'd offer both and maybe it would help Indiana tell Cleveland to take Ellis on for Shumpert (who they could move) if they want PG.

I'd do Favs, Lyles, #24 and the OKC pick for Love. Not often you can trade 4 quarters for a dollar. It would work well for Indiana too... they could extend Favs during the year if it was working and he's a seemingly good fit with Turner. Lyles is the home town boy... late firsts will help rebuild... gives flexibility and something they can sell as an okay return for George.

 

[MVP]

Burks, Exum and Favors for George. Resign Hill who would love to play with George again and we are at least Western conference finalists vs GSW. We are getting rid of two injury prone players and a failed draft pick for All star. Seems like no brainer to me. Just need to find servicable stretch PF to plug in and we are rolling. I heard Patterson is not happy in Toronto and he would be cheap and would work quite well for us.

Hill
Hayward
George
Patterson
Gobert.

That is serious contender starting 5 right there.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just go get Love... looking at his numbers from a few years ago and good gawd... 26, 12.5 and 4.4 assists. Efficient scorer and improved defender. Hits 3s, gets to the line, and gets after the offensive glass.... he would also help us get some fast break buckets with his outlet passing.

DL get it done. Big swing, but it's time to take a big swing.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Burks, Exum and Favors for George. Resign Hill who would love to play with George again and we are at least Western conference finalists vs GSW. We are getting rid of two injury prone players and a failed draft pick for All star. Seems like no brainer to me. Just need to find servicable stretch PF to plug in and we are rolling. I heard Patterson is not happy in Toronto and he would be cheap and would work quite well for us.

Hill
Hayward
George
Patterson
Gobert.

That is serious contender starting 5 right there.

Patterson won't be cheap... We will already be in luxury tax, so he will cost 2.5x whatever he signs for. I'll bet he gets 4/32... mle money.

might be worth it though... that team is good.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Hold on, is there a reason to think that the Cavs would finally trade Love? I must've missed something.

 

[MVP]

Patterson won't be cheap... We will already be in luxury tax, so he will cost 2.5x whatever he signs for. I'll bet he gets 4/32... mle money.

might be worth it though... that team is good.

he is getting 3 mil now... I think he will be happy to play for 5-6 mil a year.

 

[infection]

When looking at a matchup with GSW I think we neglect a few things. Even though numerically we were a better rebounding team in terms of total rebounds, I believe we had a lot of issues on the glass that hurt us. Having Lyles and Diaw off the bench did nothing for our rebounding. When we faced GSW we had a hobbled Gobert and then Diaw starting at the 4. Then we had hobbled Favors off the bench. Having a tandem of Love and a healthy Gobert on the glass would be the most elite combo you could dream up. I'm not certain how many transition baskets and second chances for us that them owning the offensive glass opens up but it's significant. Love isn't as effectively be with Cleveland because they're structured by trying to make an amalgamation of elite offensive players. I know there would be concerns of defense with Love but those would be magnified in his current situation. I just feel we're better if we pretend Diaw was grabbing 12 rebounds and scoring 20 points than if we pretended Hood was Paul George.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

he is getting 3 mil now... I think he will be happy to play for 5-6 mil a year.

He made 6M last year. 5-6 M would equal a ton of tax for us... we might pay it for a year if we had that team.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

he is getting 3 mil now... I think he will be happy to play for 5-6 mil a year.

IDK, he is really an advanced stats darling I'm pretty sure. He has really good advanced defensive stats, iirc, and shoots the ball well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Hold on, is there a reason to think that the Cavs would finally trade Love? I must've missed something.

The thought is the Cavs want Paul George but the Pacers would want to do a youth rebuild and organically tank for a year or two around Myles Turner, so they would have no use for Love in a trade. Enter Utah who takes Love but gives up Exum/Favors/A draft pick?

 

[LoPo]

The Pacers want 2 1st rounders, a starter and expiring contracts for George. Burks would hurt more than help.

The deal that makes the most sense:

Cavs get George
We get Love
Indy gets Favors, Hood, #24, a 2nd this year and a future 2nd.

We give then 2 starters and a 1st instead of 2 1sts and a starter. This is a good deal all around.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

The Pacers want 2 1st rounders, a starter and expiring contracts for George. Burks would hurt more than help.

The deal that makes the most sense:

Cavs get George
We get Love
Indy gets Favors, Hood, #24, a 2nd this year and a future 2nd.

We give then 2 starters and a 1st instead of 2 1sts and a starter. This is a good deal all around.

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I'd try and do Favs, Lyles (instead of hood) and two firsts. 24 this year and OKC pick. Realistically we need to move one or two picks this year anyway so that is not that big of a deal to me.

We'd have to move Burks to lower the luxury tax hit so maybe 42 and Burks to BKN. Maybe Hood goes to a third team... Philly for Holmes, TLC and 35 and we send 35 and Burks to BKN.

 

[cowhide]

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8t74rwk

Utah gets another star (certainly by Jazz standards) who is locked in for three more years, a compliment for Gobert and (Hayward if stays. Incentivizes Hayward to stay, but also provides insurance that we will be competitive if he leaves.

Cleveland gets not only George but Favors as well to retool for another run next year. They don't care that they're both FAs at the end of the year - they are thinking year to year window. Favors can't shoot but gives them another excellent option at PF/C - TT was not enough alone for the Cavs this year.

Indiana is mostly going for the bottom out here, but gets as good of a prospect as they are likely to get for a one year rental. We throw in a first round as well, maybe the OKC one. Frye is thrown in as an expiring contract for salary matching purposes.

While the Jazz get stronger so does Cleveland, if the Jazz were able to get by GS I doubt we would beat Cleveland.

I would go after PG and try to convince him to sign a new contract after a year. There is a lot to like about the Jazz organization. I would be willing to give up Lyles, Hood and 2 first for him. If Favors or Burks is needed to do the deal then so be it. Jazz are not going to be able to resign Hood or Favors.

Hayward and PG can play three positions and Quinn can figure it out. In the draft the Jazz can find a PF who can rebound and play defense, Bell etc.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe Exum, Favors, Lyles, and #30. Exum's salary next year is not insignificant.