The Honesty of Transgender Identity

[Gameface]

I agree 100%.

Ben Shapiro once was calling a trans member by him instead of her in an interview. As much as I like Ben, he was wrong on this. Just give someone the respect to call them by what they identify with. It goes along way.

There was a dumb facebook meme (facebook memes are a dumb way to form opinions...) that I thought was interesting. It said we call Calvin Cordozar Broadus, Jr by the name he wants to be called, which atm is Snoop Dogg, and for a while it was Snoop Lion. We tried as hard as we could to call Prince "The artist formerly known as Prince" and his birth name wasn't even Prince. We call people what they want to be called in general. It is something we've done forever. Oh, you want to be called "Tony" not "Anthony" sure, no problem. You're parents named you Devin Jr. but you want to go by your middle name, Demetrius, got it. I mean it is an accommodation that we give automatically in damn near any situation. So far no one in this thread has said they refuse to refer to transgender people according to the pronouns they prefer, but those people are certainly out there, and those people are jackasses.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

I think it’s be pretty safe to just address everyone as “bitch”.

We have a lot to thank Jesse Pinkman for

 

[JimLes]

Where did I write they had to have a sex change to be trans?

Which one of these examples involves someone competing simply because they said "I'm a woman?" With no sex change or hormone therapy or any transitioning actually happening? Again, this isn't ****ing Juwanna Mann here.

This is why I'm against them competing. Biologically speaking, many have an unfair advantage. It's science.

Biologically speaking, professional athletes all have an unfair advantage. That's science, too. I don't have 50 inch vertical.

 

[JimLes]

I don't understand the slippery slope argument. You should compete in whatever gender category your legal gender matches. If your driver's license says you're a woman, you compete with women. Where exactly is the slope here? Who exactly is "gaming" the system here?

 

[Archie Moses]

Which one of these examples involves someone competing simply because they said "I'm a woman?" With no sex change or hormone therapy or any transitioning actually happening? Again, this isn't ****ing Juwanna Mann here.



Biologically speaking, professional athletes all have an unfair advantage. That's science, too. I don't have 50 inch vertical.

Even if they're on hormone therapy, there are huge biological differences between males and females outside of just hormones like bone density, muscle structure, frame, strength, etc. Saying that you don't have a 50" vertical isn't really the same argument.

You're right, it isn't Juwanna Mann. I don't think any one of them are saying they're women simply to compete against females. It still doesn't change the fact that they were born males. Denying they have an unfair advantage against those born female is simply denying science imo.

 

[Archie Moses]

I don't understand the slippery slope argument. You should compete in whatever gender category your legal gender matches. If your driver's license says you're a woman, you compete with women. Where exactly is the slope here? Who exactly is "gaming" the system here?

The slippery slope is the science behind all of the examples I've given you that you turn a blind eye to.
Sports should be competed between sex and not gender imo - the exceptions would be the low percentage of inner sex.

 

[JimLes]

You're right, it isn't Juwanna Mann. I don't think any one of them are saying they're women simply to compete against females. It still doesn't change the fact that they were born males. Denying they have an unfair advantage against those born female is simply denying science imo.

I'm not denying anything. Having an advantage does not mean you should be disqualified from competing. You mention "bone density, muscle structure, frame, strength." What professional athlete does not have biological differences when it comes to these things? Serena Williams isn't Serena Williams because she worked harder than all the other women. She's Serena Williams because she was born stronger, bigger, wider, quicker than my sister.

And we have to consider the outcome. You come up with a handful of trans women competing(with one of your examples being 15 years old, which is downright ludicrous), but what was the outcome here? Who exactly is with unfair against? How many WNBA players are trans? How many NWSL players? How many of the top 100 players on the WTA tour? How many of the medal winners in track and field or swimming at the Olympics in Rio? You keep talking about a slippery slope, well, where is it? Where are these trans women who are dominating world class sports competitions?

And hell, even if you had a point, if a G-League player is willing to cut off his penis and undergo hormone therapy and put up with everything else that comes with transitioning, in order to possibly make 30-40 grand a year more, by all means, they should. If they're willing to do all that and can still dominate the WNBA, I tip my hat to them.

 

[JimLes]

The slippery slope is the science behind all of the examples I've given you that you turn a blind eye to.
Sports should be competed between sex and not gender imo - the exceptions would be the low percentage of inner sex.

If you're legally a woman, you should compete against women. Why is this so hard? It's always been like this, too.

And I don't think you understand what a slippery slope means. It's an outcome. What outcome do you believe allowing transgender women to compete against other women will cause?

 

[Siro]

I'm not denying anything. Having an advantage does not mean you should be disqualified from competing. You mention "bone density, muscle structure, frame, strength." What professional athlete does not have biological differences when it comes to these things? Serena Williams isn't Serena Williams because she worked harder than all the other women. She's Serena Williams because she was born stronger, bigger, wider, quicker than my sister.

And we have to consider the outcome. You come up with a handful of trans women competing(with one of your examples being 15 years old, which is downright ludicrous), but what was the outcome here? Who exactly is with unfair against? How many WNBA players are trans? How many NWSL players? How many of the top 100 players on the WTA tour? How many of the medal winners in track and field or swimming at the Olympics in Rio? You keep talking about a slippery slope, well, where is it? Where are these trans women who are dominating world class sports competitions?

And hell, even if you had a point, if a G-League player is willing to cut off his penis and undergo hormone therapy and put up with everything else that comes with transitioning, in order to possibly make 30-40 grand a year more, by all means, they should. If they're willing to do all that and can still dominate the WNBA, I tip my hat to them.

I don't know about all of that. The difference in strength between men and women is huge. It's a pretty insurmountable advantage, and it'd be extremely unfair to the other competitors.

 

[Archie Moses]

If you're legally a woman, you should compete against women. Why is this so hard? It's always been like this, too.

Because it's not fair and I'm a sports fan. Look at all the examples I gave you. The track stars shattered records. The mma fighter broke orbital bones. The weight lifter started transitioning at age 37. The long driver golfer was a cop for 20 years and great guy golfer, but nothing close to being pro - she then transitioned and viola - she became a golf pro and long drive winner. How many people can become world champs later on in life?

Bill Burr has a pretty funny bit on this you can see on YouTube.

 

[Gameface]

Yeah, I've got to say, competitive sports is a complicated area. But I also think it is largely a red-herring in the larger transgender discussion.

As I posted before, for kids competing in middle and high school level sports, winning and losing are not the primary purpose of sports in schools. But it is still a discussion worth having.

I don't think anyone is trans so that they can have an advantage in sports. But if someone is trans they might see an opportunity. At the professional level I can see not allowing trans people to compete.

If that was the worst type of discrimination a trans person faced this would be a much better world than the one we currently live in.

 

[Siro]

Because it's not fair and I'm a sports fan. Look at all the examples I gave you. The track stars shattered records. The mma fighter broke orbital bones. The weight lifter started transitioning at age 37. The long driver golfer was a cop for 20 years and great guy golfer, but nothing close to being pro - she then transitioned and viola - she became a golf pro and long drive winner. How many people can become world champs later on in life?

Bill Burr has a pretty funny bit on this you can see on YouTube.

Ya, I think Jimles' point is crazy. Marginalize 50% of the population to appease.... what? 0.1%?