Dante has been out forever because he ded
- Thread starter str8line
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Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
You only need 34% from the 3 (which is average) to match 50% from mid-range(that's elite). We need to continue to take a ton of 3s and dunks/layups. A mid-range shot is better than no shot, but that's about it.
D
Deleted member 365
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I get the logic behind it.
We just don’t have the shooters to exploit it. As shown by our many many MANY unnecessary blowouts this year. It’s feast or famine with us. Imo, we’d be better off if we ran a more conventional offense.
We aren’t golden state.
Alfalfa
Well-Known Member
But our shooters can still hit the 3 at a greater point-per-possession rate than they would if they took mostly 2s, as was the convention you speak of. We are shooting at 34.4% from the three, which isn't great, but it's pretty much an impossible rate to match from the mid-range (like 52%). Not to forget that focusing on the 3 and the inside, instead of mid-range 2s, creates more space that helps the offense in every way. There is a case for old school centers being able to dominate in the current system, since they were very efficient. But not for old-school systems that mostly generate 2 point jumpers.
MVP
Well-Known Member
I do not mind tons of 3's when the come from some well executed plays ( screens, drives and kicks, pick and pop, etc). I hate what we did vs Houston when it was dribble, dribble, iso play and desperation 3 launch at the end of the shot clock. Better drive in the paint and try to draw foul IMHO.
D
Deleted member 365
Guest
Yeah, I've heard the arguments... Many times. I don't buy it.
What we never talk about?
The fastbreak opportunities the other team gets because of the long rebounds resulting in easy fastbreaks for them. The inability to stop the bleeding because we keep chucking 3s results in unnecessary blowouts.
The frustration our players and fans feel after we've clunked our last 500 3 point attempts.
The loss of "attack" mentality.
Sloan didn't have great post up players either in the post S2M era. I feel a more conventional offense would be better for us as I believe we would score more efficiently, build more momentum, and limit fastbreak points.
Sandman822
Well-Known Member
The Jazz are 2nd in opponent's fast break points allowed so I don't understand how the current Jazz offense is bleeding transition points on the other end. The inability to stop the bleeding also has very little to do with our 3pt shooting, the real problem with that is that the Jazz have no one in their starting lineup who can easily get to the rim so when the shooting dries up the Jazz end up running blenders all over the place just to brick shots. Mitchell and Rubio can both get by their primary defender consistently enough, but Mitchell lacks the explosion to easily get by the secondary defender and often has to put on a series of moves to get to the rim (if he even gets there instead of putting up a floater), and he often slows down while doing it which allows recovery/rotations/etc on defense time to get to where they need to be. Rubio has almost zero ability to get by a secondary defender which is why you see him take a lot of those short/mid range 2s.
What this means for the offense is that if the Jazz are missing jumpshots, defenses start to overplay the roll man (Gobert/Favors) to take away the Jazz' most efficient PPS options, and then the Jazz' offense boils down to blenders and missed shots. It's where the value of Exum shows itself the most offensively as when the shots aren't falling and they're overplaying the roll man he's the only guy who can manage to find his way to the rim easily by blowing by his primary defender and pressuring/exploding by his secondary defender too, which is why the Exum/Gobert or Exum/Favs in particular PnRs have historically been one of the more efficient scoring options for the Jazz, and it was a large reason why the Jazz were getting back into games in that December stretch after the starters came out slow. Even with Exum's poor finishing ability, just being able to get off shots near the rim while committing the rim protector to him allowed easy offensive put backs for the big guys (aka the most efficient shot takers on the team), and that pressure at the rim would get the shooters wide open on catch and shoots which could spark them into rhythm.
It's why I'd throw the kitchen sink at Jrue Holiday, he's an underrated driver of the ball and is physical and explosive enough to get defenses to collapse on him when he drives to the rim. Conley is more out of the Mitchell mold where he uses craftiness to get all the way to the rim, which is an upgrade on Rubio but an important reason why the Jazz would need to keep Exum in a Conley deal. Exum is expendable in a Jrue deal because Jrue does what Exum can do 10x better while also providing a ton of other things on both ends of the floor. But the Jazz desperately just need a guy who can get to the rim at will when the shots aren't falling, and Exum's injury was really felt during the Portland and Houston losses.
What this means for the offense is that if the Jazz are missing jumpshots, defenses start to overplay the roll man (Gobert/Favors) to take away the Jazz' most efficient PPS options, and then the Jazz' offense boils down to blenders and missed shots. It's where the value of Exum shows itself the most offensively as when the shots aren't falling and they're overplaying the roll man he's the only guy who can manage to find his way to the rim easily by blowing by his primary defender and pressuring/exploding by his secondary defender too, which is why the Exum/Gobert or Exum/Favs in particular PnRs have historically been one of the more efficient scoring options for the Jazz, and it was a large reason why the Jazz were getting back into games in that December stretch after the starters came out slow. Even with Exum's poor finishing ability, just being able to get off shots near the rim while committing the rim protector to him allowed easy offensive put backs for the big guys (aka the most efficient shot takers on the team), and that pressure at the rim would get the shooters wide open on catch and shoots which could spark them into rhythm.
It's why I'd throw the kitchen sink at Jrue Holiday, he's an underrated driver of the ball and is physical and explosive enough to get defenses to collapse on him when he drives to the rim. Conley is more out of the Mitchell mold where he uses craftiness to get all the way to the rim, which is an upgrade on Rubio but an important reason why the Jazz would need to keep Exum in a Conley deal. Exum is expendable in a Jrue deal because Jrue does what Exum can do 10x better while also providing a ton of other things on both ends of the floor. But the Jazz desperately just need a guy who can get to the rim at will when the shots aren't falling, and Exum's injury was really felt during the Portland and Houston losses.
elan_prodigy
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J
JAZZGASM
Guest
Agreed. The Spurs don't take a ton of 3s, but they are efficient from everywhere, and shoot great percentages. They run their sets and get efficient shots. Best run offense in the league IMO.
Sandman822
Well-Known Member
Bad take, it's a fact that shooting 34% on 3s > shooting 50% on 2s. The way to have 2 point attempts outweight 3 point attempts by PPS is to get high quality looks at the rim that you can convert at 65%+, which is why some of the most successful modern offenses like the Rockets live either in the paint or on the 3pt line.
Depends on what Spurs offense you're talking about. The offense they are able to run with their bench unit is very good, but the last time I checked the bench 3pt% attempt rate is up in the top 10 of NBA teams. Only reason they don't take a ton of threes is because of LMA and DeRozan, and according to the on/off bballreference stats the Spurs are better offensively as well as defensively with those guys off vs on (in DeRozan's case they're a crazy 5.8 points per 100 better with him off the floor offensively).
It's part of the reason why LMA getting in over Aldridge is so absurd, the team arguable does better when he's off the court compared to Gobert who's vital for the Jazz yet LMA got in over him. Pop had adjusted to having these two guys on his team by essentially going away from the successful Spurs offense they've ran for most of this decade to an old school style that statistics suggest isn't really producing better basketball than guys on their bench do when they run the Spurs offense we've been acustomed to.
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