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Privileged by Kyle Korver

Tak said:
In a conversation, that goes both ways. I get the concept, is just the "shut up and listen" sound authoritarian and forceful instead of inviting.
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He said it himself. To himself. If he was acting authoritarian and forceful, it was when referring to HIM.

I don't see what's wrong with what I read as "I've said my piece, someone else. <3 KK"
 
Harambe said:
He said it himself. To himself. If he was acting authoritarian and forceful, it was when referring to HIM.

I don't see what's wrong with what I read as "I've said my piece, someone else. <3 KK"
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I've read the whole article not only as a personal experience but also as an invitation to do the same. Under that light it sounds authoritarian. If it's just the former you're right, he can impose what he wants to himself.
 
Tak said:
Great read, don't like the idea of "shut up and listen" though. Seems an awful way to reach a consensus.
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If he had said white people should “only listen” or seomthing I’d be inclined to agree. But he didn’t. We all talk to much and listen to little. Sometimes shutting our mouths and listening is needed and right.

Good article and glad he’s speaking out.
 
I liked the read. I feel bad the Jazz player(s) or their mothers don't feel safe in Utah. I like to think the reality is the fans would mob them with adoration and kindness if given the chance. But I can see where 18K screaming fans that more or less look the same are yelling at players who mostly look different would be scary or intimidating.

Also, I found it interesting how he perceived the crowds silence. in the face of SK's vulgar taunts to Westbrook. He indicated the players thought it was a sign of racism in the crowd, and applied it to the entire crowd and then by extension to the entire community. I believe I knew the now infamous SK many years ago. He was a hot-headed bully back then, and even then marginalized by his bullying. I 100% believe it is inaccurate to say his actions represent a majority of the people in the crowd, or of Mormons, or any other convenient generality. I am also disappointed that people around SK didn't do more to shut him up, but I think the reasoning behind the inaction is more complex. I think Korver got it right when he said we can't just stand by and let stuff happen. I don't cross paths with the Jazz players, but I do cross paths with many other people living in the margins. I can probably do more to show them kindness, increase civility and let them know I will stick up for them.
 
Tak said:
In a conversation, that goes both ways. I get the concept, is just the "shut up and listen" sound authoritarian and forceful instead of inviting.
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One difference is that how white people see things is spread across all the media. It's in the news, the music, the literature, the political essays, etc. Anyone who imbues popular culture in the US already understands the white experience. That includes the tendency for white people to insist that everyone has to hear their voice, so they can continue to repeat the experiences everyone knows about, and dominate the conversation.
 
Tak said:
I've read the whole article not only as a personal experience but also as an invitation to do the same. Under that light it sounds authoritarian. If it's just the former you're right, he can impose what he wants to himself.
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You do realize that if it is "as an invitation to do the same" it is then not authoritarian?

Perhaps you could ask yourself why you find this idea so difficult.
 
Personally as a white guy who lives among white guys I have my own stuff to worry about. I don't think of anybody different due to their color nor do express any indifference. We are all humans in my eyes. Besides maybe some mean words I have never hurt anybody or wished bad on anything.

So my question is, what am I expected to do? Do I have to go out of my way to understand something I never will? Should I put my life on hold for something I'm not part of? I ask this sincerely and think it's alright to discuss this.

I detest racism. I have no clue how someone can dislike another human due to the difference in the pigments of our skin.
 
As for people around fans like SK needing to intervene more, I don't think you can expect people to put themselves or their loved ones in danger.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
One Brow said:
You do realize that if it is "as an invitation to do the same" it is then not authoritarian?

Perhaps you could ask yourself why you find this idea so difficult.
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The tone doesn't change the message. Someone could yell to you to sod off and another could gently invite you to leave him alone, both are doing the same. Tell people to shut up it's not good, never was, never will.
 
This was a good read. Kyle Korver is a very thoughtful, profound, sincere and overall great guy. You can tell this issue has been weighing on him a lot and he needed to get what he felt off his chest.

There were a couple of parts that felt a little forced, and some things he wrote, I don't neccesarily agree with, but I stand by him. At the end of the day, it's bizarre that in 2019 people still judge people by the color of their skin.

I like the part where he said that he doesn't feel (this is paraphrasing) that white people should be held accountable for slavery and the socially acceptable racism of our forefathers, but responsible. That is such a great line and great way of thinking about it.
 
Tak said:
The tone doesn't change the message.
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Unless you have a complete, total inability to read social cue, tone matters, and quite a bit.

You seem to be resisting this idea of listening very strongly. So don't listen. No one will make you. However, I do advise you to ask yourself why it is so hard for you.
 
One Brow said:
Unless you have a complete, total inability to read social cue, tone matters, and quite a bit.

You seem to be resisting this idea of listening very strongly. So don't listen. No one will make you. However, I do advise you to ask yourself why it is so hard for you.
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Something about consensus.
 
Well, I wasn’t going to start posting till the playoffs started but this article by Korver really hit home with me. I have seen a lot of me in what Korver writes about his first thoughts about Thabo being arrested. @Tak ... truer words weren’t spoken by Korver than shut up and listen!! Since Martin Luther King JR and probably before him they’ve shouted this message. The predominant thing we will here from some white people is that there isn’t a problem that racism lives because the black communities won’t let it go, so how refreshing it is to me to here one of my own in Korver, another white man telling us we need to shut up, move past our pride, and not only hear the message but do something about it. I’ve been guilty of the same thing Korver described in the first part of the article.

If we would all shut up and listen, maybe we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
 
One Brow said:
Unless you have a complete, total inability to read social cue, tone matters, and quite a bit.

You seem to be resisting this idea of listening very strongly. So don't listen. No one will make you. However, I do advise you to ask yourself why it is so hard for you.
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Why don't you quote the entirety of my message and leave this part out?

Tak said:
Tell people to shut up it's not good, never was, never will.
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I'm here clearly arguing against telling or suggesting people to shut up but you are interpreting it as not wanting to listen. Are you sure you are listening?
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Well, I wasn’t going to start posting till the playoffs started but this article by Korver really hit home with me. I have seen a lot of me in what Korver writes about his first thoughts about Thabo being arrested. @Tak ... truer words weren’t spoken by Korver than shut up and listen!! Since Martin Luther King JR and probably before him they’ve shouted this message. The predominant thing we will here from some white people is that there isn’t a problem that racism lives because the black communities won’t let it go, so how refreshing it is to me to here one of my own in Korver, another white man telling us we need to shut up, move past our pride, and not only hear the message but do something about it. I’ve been guilty of the same thing Korver described in the first part of the article.

If we would all shut up and listen, maybe we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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Who will decide who will shut up and when?
 
Tak said:
I've read the whole article not only as a personal experience but also as an invitation to do the same. Under that light it sounds authoritarian. If it's just the former you're right, he can impose what he wants to himself.
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He did. :)
 
Tak said:
Who will decide who will shut up and when?
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You’ve just proven my point. Look at the whole Kaepernick saga. He protested against injustice with police, and the presidents responce was that if he didn’t like it he should leave, and when many of the players within the nfl spoke up he suggested they be fired thinking he could manipulate the nfl. Now one of our own is sick of it and telling us what we need to here, so shut the hell up and listen. That didn’t come from Kaep or some random black person. It came from someone that looks like me, and blends in with the majority of this state of Utah.

And if we are being honest, I wonder how much different the reaction would be or the conversation would be if Korver was black.
 
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