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CHINA vs the NBA.

What was the point of the "One Country, Two System" agreement? Again, I'll point out data that in 2016, 70% of people in Hong Kong approved of the "One Country, Two System" government. It sure feels like the tone of "HK Supporters" in the US want them to be independent from China. That's not even what they are asking for.

Rather than trying to understand what the protesters are asking for, or what the majority of HK citizens want, we immediately try to interject our values into a culture of people that we don't truly understand.
People talk as if everyone in HongKong wants democracy, independence or both. That is not anywhere close to the truth. HongKong as a state is divided amongst themselves. With a good portion of the local citizens being pro Communists. Those just were never reported in the US news media. Even the protesters themselves are divided into the peaceful ones and violent rioters. But even if everyone in HongKong can come together to try to accomplish something as a group, it still won't make up to 1% of the entire Chinese population. Much less than those anti-Trump protesters.
 
You're starting with the most irrelevant "fact." What happened a 100, 150, or 2000 years ago is irrelevant to possible solutions to today's problems.

So the rich and complex history of China is not relevant in understanding this situation and the perspectives of those involved (along with potential solutions)? It's certainly important to them, why shouldn't we understand it before imposing our values on them? Chinese people are very conscious of their history. Ask someone from China how they feel about Japan, despite those atrocities happening 80 years ago.
 
All this being said, the fact that Haywood's shoe contract is suspended made me guffaw just a little. Perhaps that was the point of the whole thing.

"Wait, who authorized those Christmas shoes!? Can this be stopped!?

Lower level staffer- "I've got a plan. Let me call my contact in the government."

But really. When the Hayward Christmas shoes come out, I plan on boycotting China by not buying them.

I will join the boycott #standwithframer
 
All this being said, the fact that Haywood's shoe contract is suspended made me guffaw just a little. Perhaps that was the point of the whole thing.

"Wait, who authorized those Christmas shoes!? Can this be stopped!?

Lower level staffer- "I've got a plan. Let me call my contact in the government."

But really. When the Hayward Christmas shoes come out, I plan on boycotting China by not buying them.

Also, this is great... I wish no harm on Hayward, but the fact that he went to Boston for notoriety and ends up with Anta and they suspend his contract is great. Meanwhile DM selling a buttload of his signature shoes with one of the big shoe companies.
 
People talk as if everyone in HongKong wants democracy, independence or both. That is not anywhere close to the truth. HongKong as a state is divided amongst themselves. With a good portion of the local citizens being pro Communists.

This is spot on. Not everyone in the world wants a government similar to the United States. We need to stop treating other countries like we know what is best for them.
 
This is spot on. Not everyone in the world wants a government similar to the United States. We need to stop treating other countries like we know what is best for them.
What good does free speech or democracy do if you dont have a job, medical care ,can't feed yourself or your family, are in fear of your own lives every day? That's why from what I understand, most NBA fans in China are willing to boycott the NBA in support of their government because they understand what they value the most.
 
I agree with you. But I don't believe that's relevant in this situation. This isn't about exporting democracy to China -- it's about preservation of Hong Kong's way of life. The only culture that's being imposed here is by the Chinese government on Hong Kong.



Again, all of these things happened long before any of the parties involved were ever born. Who does this affect more? Hong Kong changing their way of life, or China thinking that something belongs to them? Which one will impact individuals lives more on a day to day basis? Think about what you're saying. China not being able to lay claim to Hong Kong affects the average Chinese person how much? China laying claim to Hong Kong affects the average HKer how much? I can tell you that the answer to one of those questions is much larger than the other. If we were to take this template and apply it elsewhere, does the template hold up and make sense? Let's say slavery. Sure, you could find some upset descendants of white plantation owners who feel that it was unjust that their 'property' was taken from them, and emphasize some heavy nuance on how we don't understand how complicated things are and how descendants of plantation owners have some legitimate gripe. So? Perhaps that's too extreme. How about the revolutionary war? Lots of British thought the colonies were theirs. So? Should the US revert back to England, way after the fact, because they believe it was ultimately theirs, that started colonization, and that the rebellion was unjust? Does any of that history mean **** to people today?

Should Hong Kong lay down their way of life because nearly 200 years ago "this belonged to China for a really long time"? Ok. Some land was part of the Chinese empire. How about the people -- alive now -- who weren't way back when this happened? What about them?
Most of the protestors were alive when the more brutal country controlled them. They were there for the transition. The protesters are not asking for Independence. Have you looked at what they are asking for?
 
What was the point of the "One Country, Two System" agreement? Again, I'll point out data that in 2016, 70% of people in Hong Kong approved of the "One Country, Two System" government. It sure feels like the tone of "HK Supporters" in the US want them to be independent from China. That's not even what they are asking for.

Rather than trying to understand what the protesters are asking for, or what the majority of HK citizens want, we immediately try to interject our values into a culture of people that we don't truly understand.

The core of one country two systems is that we want China to leave us the fk alone. They’re trying to interfere with us more and more, while trying to strong arm us into submission.

Anyone with half a brain would see that Hong Kong as an individual country would be unrealistic given how much of our food, water, resources in general comes from China.

But if they one country two systems policy is supposed to leave is under Chinese rule with a strong degree of autonomy, then give us autonomy and don’t use the Hong Kong government as a puppet (a extremely useless and stupid puppet). So in short, we generally just want to be left alone with a high degree of autonomy, which hopefully includes democratic elections for legislative council and chief executive.
 
People talk as if everyone in HongKong wants democracy, independence or both. That is not anywhere close to the truth. HongKong as a state is divided amongst themselves. With a good portion of the local citizens being pro Communists. Those just were never reported in the US news media. Even the protesters themselves are divided into the peaceful ones and violent rioters. But even if everyone in HongKong can come together to try to accomplish something as a group, it still won't make up to 1% of the entire Chinese population. Much less than those anti-Trump protesters.


Don’t know why this 1% of Chinese population is a point at all. I don’t consider myself as Chinese anymore anyhow. I’m from Hong Kong and that’s that. You’ll never hear me introduce myself or admit myself as Chinese anymore.

Very very very few people are pro communist in Hong Kong except the people that came from China. Pro government supporters are pro stability due to financial vested interests. If China economy dies, you can bet there will be a huge migration of the ‘pro communists’ that you speak of.

The violent protestors are generally all young and lower in the socioeconomic bracket because the wealth gap and affordability of housing in Hong Kong is so bad, which is where a lot of the grievances behind these protests come from. Democracy is but one of many things that is behind these protests. The city is controlled by the rich (coming from a family that is decently well off, so this doesn’t even apply to me), and they’re rich because of China so they are willing to bend over and get fked from behind by them. That’s another key reason the younger generation hates China.
 
Sadly, neither is Tiananmen Square. Most of people in China nowadays are pro-government. Period. They don't care about freedom of speech, they don't care about democracy. People in China were never taught these values. All they can see is the quality of lives improving dramatically over the past two decades. That is what they care the most about. Of course there are a good portion of them, like the richest of the rich, who would pursue something more. But they are not the majority. Not even close. There is no "crisis" or massive "refugees" trying to flee China right now, unlike when Tiananmen square happened.

Xinjiang concentration camps disagree
 
What good does free speech or democracy do if you dont have a job, medical care ,can't feed yourself or your family, are in fear of your own lives every day? That's why from what I understand, most NBA fans in China are willing to boycott the NBA in support of their government because they understand what they value the most.

They’re also ridiculously narrow minded an unable to make educated judgements. A lot of other large countries are incredibly ignorant (USA is a big culprit here) because of ethnocentrism, but at least it’s by choice and not by censorship.
 
Xinjiang concentration camps disagree
yeah, same argument. 1-3 million people makes up to about 0.2% of Chinese population. Even every single one of them disagrees, what difference would that make? Even the KKK still exists in the US today. Are they relevant from a macro perspective?
 
Don’t know why this 1% of Chinese population is a point at all. I don’t consider myself as Chinese anymore anyhow. I’m from Hong Kong and that’s that. You’ll never hear me introduce myself or admit myself as Chinese anymore.

Very very very few people are pro communist in Hong Kong except the people that came from China. Pro government supporters are pro stability due to financial vested interests. If China economy dies, you can bet there will be a huge migration of the ‘pro communists’ that you speak of.

The violent protestors are generally all young and lower in the socioeconomic bracket because the wealth gap and affordability of housing in Hong Kong is so bad, which is where a lot of the grievances behind these protests come from. Democracy is but one of many things that is behind these protests. The city is controlled by the rich (coming from a family that is decently well off, so this doesn’t even apply to me), and they’re rich because of China so they are willing to bend over and get fked from behind by them. That’s another key reason the younger generation hates China.
really? i thought you are an aussie lol. And you said very few people are pro communist in Hong Kong, do you have data to back it up? I know Ron said about 70% of them were pro government in Hong Kong or something like that(just him, even I find that number a bit hard to believe).

but if you google words like "pro police rally hong kong" and you'll find videos of people gathering in thousands in support of the Hong Kong government and police. that doesn't seem "very very very few" to me.
 
Don’t know why this 1% of Chinese population is a point at all. I don’t consider myself as Chinese anymore anyhow. I’m from Hong Kong and that’s that. You’ll never hear me introduce myself or admit myself as Chinese anymore.

Very very very few people are pro communist in Hong Kong except the people that came from China. Pro government supporters are pro stability due to financial vested interests. If China economy dies, you can bet there will be a huge migration of the ‘pro communists’ that you speak of.

The violent protestors are generally all young and lower in the socioeconomic bracket because the wealth gap and affordability of housing in Hong Kong is so bad, which is where a lot of the grievances behind these protests come from. Democracy is but one of many things that is behind these protests. The city is controlled by the rich (coming from a family that is decently well off, so this doesn’t even apply to me), and they’re rich because of China so they are willing to bend over and get fked from behind by them. That’s another key reason the younger generation hates China.
well, not just China, if ANY country's economy collapses, the country itself would die along with it in almost all cases with the US being one of the very few exceptions. That's what is great about our country. But like i said earlier, China does OWN the buying power at the moment. Nobody would've even had this conversation if it were countries like Turkey or Vietnam trying to boycott the NBA. It is sad but true.
 
They’re also ridiculously narrow minded an unable to make educated judgements. A lot of other large countries are incredibly ignorant (USA is a big culprit here) because of ethnocentrism, but at least it’s by choice and not by censorship.
you think censorship doesn't exist here in the US? Well just moments ago ESPN cut out Stephen A when he started talking politics. That is CENSORSHIP for you. Not to mention years ago Kanye got cut out for telling "Bush doesn't care about black people" on TV. Doc said it best, "free speech does not mean free consequences." People somehow believes the right to free speech would miraculously bring solutions to all real life problems. Unfortunately it does not.
 
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really? i thought you are an aussie lol. And you said very few people are pro communist in Hong Kong, do you have data to back it up? I know Ron said about 70% of them were pro government in Hong Kong or something like that(just him, even I find that number a bit hard to believe).

but if you google words like "pro police rally hong kong" and you'll find videos of people gathering in thousands in support of the Hong Kong government and police. that doesn't seem "very very very few" to me.

Yeah thousands of people people gathered for police rally compared to 1.3 million for anti extradition rally. You do the math.

Pro communist and pro money are two very different things. People support China because it gives them stable wealth. You’re also conflating pro government with supporting one country two systems which couldn’t be more wrong.
 
you think censorship doesn't exist here in the US? Well just moments ago ESPN cut out Stephen A when he started talking politics. That is CENSORSHIP for you. Not to mention years ago Kanye got cut out for telling "Bush doesn't care about black people" on TV. Doc said it best, "free speech does not mean free consequences." People somehow believes the right to free speech would miraculously bring solutions to all real life problems. Unfortunately it does not.

No but people have the chance to educate themselves and have access to information
 
yeah, same argument. 1-3 million people makes up to about 0.2% of Chinese population. Even every single one of them disagrees, what difference would that make? Even the KKK still exists in the US today. Are they relevant from a macro perspective?

If 3 million people are being deprived of the most basic human rights, you can be damn sure it matters and should make a difference.
 
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