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The official "let's impeach Trump" thread

Trump Has A Bizarre Idea of Winning

by Nicolas Kristoff

"Perhaps the most consistent foreign policy mistake that the United States has made in my lifetime is a failure to appreciate nationalism, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, Iraq to Latin America. It’s an odd mistake for a country that was born because King George III failed to accommodate our own nationalism. Yet today as well we often overstate Iran’s religiosity but underappreciated its nationalist sensitivities."


https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/01/10/nicholas-kristof-trump/
 
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Reactions: Red
Haven't watched much Colbert over the years, which is a big mistake. He's phenomenal.

 
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Didn’t want to create a new thread for this. But it happened and I’m curious what you think. Russia claims we violated international rules. We claim they did and they almost needlessly collided with us. I don’t know anyone else in this forum with navy experience. @Gameface what do you think? There are two videos in this thread:

 
The Thriller said:
Didn’t want to create a new thread for this. But it happened and I’m curious what you think. Russia claims we violated international rules. We claim they did and they almost needlessly collided with us. I don’t know anyone else in this forum with navy experience. @Gameface what do you think? There are two videos in this thread:

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I think it's fairly standard. The U.S. sails its ships and flies its planes in disputed areas to say that we can. Iran, China, Russia, etc. harass us as we do it. It's just SOP.
 
fishonjazz said:
Poor example.

We thought he was going to be is different than we think he is imo.

Trumpers think he has already achieved a god like status. He is a near equivalent to God to many idiots.

(To be fair saying we thought Obama, or anyone, was going to be the next Messiah is a really stupid thing to say too)
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I've been in the Yucutan for a week so I didn't see this response. LOL at your backtracking. There were many media members and fanboys who thought that Obama was the next coming. The fact that they may have later rescinded those opinions is irrelevant to this discussion. Maybe the Trump fanboys will ultimately rescind their praise too. Will that mean they never gave it? Chris Mathews from MSNBC was so thrilled at the Obama inauguration that he peed his pants (or something tingly in those regions) and told his audience about it. How would the never Trump crowd have reacted to that?
 
Political Jazz Fan said:
Liberalism is a cult
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How very ignorant....

https://www.encyclopedia.com/international/legal-and-political-magazines/liberal-democracy

Liberal democracy is generally understood to be a system of government in which people consent to their rulers, and rulers, in turn, are constitutionally constrained to respect individual rights. However, widely divergent views exist regarding the meaning of consent and individual rights, of the particular forms of government that are best suited to the preservation of popular rule and the protection of rights, and of the types and effectiveness of constitutional constraints within particular forms of government. Nonetheless, liberal democracy is common throughout most of the developed world. At a minimum, liberal democracy is characterized by the following:

  1. Widespread political participation by adult citizens, including members of minority groups that include racial, ethnic, religious, linguistic, and economic minorities;
  2. Secret ballots and frequent regular elections;
  3. Broad freedom of individuals to form and support political parties, with each party free to present its views and form a government;
  4. Governments that can alter, interpret, and enforce laws to suit (within limits) the majority's preferences;
  5. Effective guarantees of individual and minority rights, especially in areas such as freedom of speech, press, conscience, religion, assembly, and equal treatment before the law; and
  6. Limited governmental powers, which are kept in check by constitutional guarantees including separation of powers (so that all executive, legislative, and judicial powers are not, in effect, exercised by the same person or institution).
-------------------------------------------------
Note that Trumpism is attempting to eliminate the Constitutionally granted power of Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch( covered by point #6 above). Trumpism appeals to individuals who favor authoritarianism over democracy. Folks should understand that there are millions of Americans, quite ignorant of a basic understanding of American civics, who are comfortable with an authoritarian style executive. And, clearly, the Imperial Presidency has been a trend for several administrations now, it did not arrive with Trump; it is reaching its apex with Trump.

Left unchecked, and backed by the GOP, Trumpism is, at least in part, an effort to render the power of the Chief Executive more absolute then is allowed in our constitutional republic, and liberal democracy.

And note that the GOP, quite habitually, identifies as "un-American", citizens that do not support the president 100%. They do so oblivious to the fact that such an attitude on their part is the epitome of un-American.

Liberalism is not a cult. But, we do have a very strong cult of personality in the United States today. It is Trumpism, and the Cult of Trump.....
 
Red said:
How very ignorant....

https://www.encyclopedia.com/international/legal-and-political-magazines/liberal-democracy

Liberal democracy is generally understood to be a system of government in which people consent to their rulers, and rulers, in turn, are constitutionally constrained to respect individual rights. However, widely divergent views exist regarding the meaning of consent and individual rights, of the particular forms of government that are best suited to the preservation of popular rule and the protection of rights, and of the types and effectiveness of constitutional constraints within particular forms of government. Nonetheless, liberal democracy is common throughout most of the developed world. At a minimum, liberal democracy is characterized by the following:

  1. Widespread political participation by adult citizens, including members of minority groups that include racial, ethnic, religious, linguistic, and economic minorities;
  2. Secret ballots and frequent regular elections;
  3. Broad freedom of individuals to form and support political parties, with each party free to present its views and form a government;
  4. Governments that can alter, interpret, and enforce laws to suit (within limits) the majority's preferences;
  5. Effective guarantees of individual and minority rights, especially in areas such as freedom of speech, press, conscience, religion, assembly, and equal treatment before the law; and
  6. Limited governmental powers, which are kept in check by constitutional guarantees including separation of powers (so that all executive, legislative, and judicial powers are not, in effect, exercised by the same person or institution).
-------------------------------------------------
Note that Trumpism is attempting to eliminate the Constitutionally granted power of Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch( covered by point #6 above). Trumpism appeals to individuals who favor authoritarianism over democracy. Folks should understand that there are millions of Americans, quite ignorant of a basic understanding of American civics, who are comfortable with an authoritarian style executive. And, clearly, the Imperial Presidency has been a trend for several administrations now, it did not arrive with Trump; it is reaching its apex with Trump.

Left unchecked, and backed by the GOP, Trumpism is, at least in part, an effort to render the power of the Chief Executive more absolute then is allowed in our constitutional republic, and liberal democracy.

And note that the GOP, quite habitually, identifies as "un-American", citizens that do not support the president 100%. They do so oblivious to the fact that such an attitude on their part is the epitome of un-American.

Liberalism is not a cult. But, we do have a very strong cult of personality in the United States today. It is Trumpism, and the Cult of Trump.....
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While I haven't read every post, I think the one you're responding to is most likely poking fun at Thriller for all of his Trumpism is a cult posts. I do understand how concerning it can be to see people with different political goals than yours in power, and it's especially troubling when they find ways to accomplish their goals. So I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you were not concerned about Obama's unprecedented use of Executive Order and other methods specifically designed to circumvent congress in order to push his agenda through.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
So I guess it shouldn't surprise me that you were not concerned about Obama's unprecedented use of Executive Order and other methods specifically designed to circumvent congress in order to push his agenda through.
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I guess you missed this part of my comment that you're replying to:

"And, clearly, the Imperial Presidency has been a trend for several administrations now, it did not arrive with Trump; it is reaching its apex with Trump."

That would include both Bush Jr. And Obama.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I've been in the Yucutan for a week so I didn't see this response. LOL at your backtracking. There were many media members and fanboys who thought that Obama was the next coming. The fact that they may have later rescinded those opinions is irrelevant to this discussion. Maybe the Trump fanboys will ultimately rescind their praise too. Will that mean they never gave it? Chris Mathews from MSNBC was so thrilled at the Obama inauguration that he peed his pants (or something tingly in those regions) and told his audience about it. How would the never Trump crowd have reacted to that?
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Don't be silly

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I heard otherwise rational people in 2015 saying that Obama wasn't going to give up the Presidency.

These are the same people who think that Obama was thought of as a messiah by the imaginary people who were going to support him taking a third term without being elected. They are the same people who are cool with Trump being our President.
They live in their own world and that world is not reality. I have no idea how to burst the iron bubble they live in. They are so happy I wonder if we should even try.
 
Gameface said:
I heard otherwise rational people in 2015 saying that Obama wasn't going to give up the Presidency.

These are the same people who think that Obama was thought of as a messiah by the imaginary people who were going to support him taking a third term without being elected. They are the same people who are cool with Trump being our President.
They live in their own world and that world is not reality. I have no idea how to burst the iron bubble they live in. They are so happy I wonder if we should even try.
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Exactly. I didn't hear Obama's constituents saying he was chosen by God, but I have heard Trump supporters dismiss his unethical behavior by saying God uses imperfect people to perform miracles. I didn't hear Obama calling himself 'the Chosen One', but I literally heard those words come out of Trump's mouth.

There is so much twisted logic being applied to excuse Trump's corruption, most of it in this absurdist 'well, Obama/Hilary started it' playground tone. Even if the American people as a whole were to concede in detail every accusation made against Obama/Hilary, in what world has bad behavior by past individuals been reasonable justification for current bad behavior? That doesn't fly in preschool. I guess we're supposed to give a collective shrug, accept Trump's infallibility, and just quietly go along with whatever he says and does. I can tell you this much: This thread, and the millions of other discussions happening around the world about this exact topic, aren't going to change a thing, because this is precisely where we are as a country at this point-- two camps that refuse to budge on absolutely anything, with an effectively invisible, shrinking swath of moderate folks in the middle of the whole thing. I have no idea what it means or where we're headed, but thinking about it for too long doesn't usually leave me in a positive head space.
 
olden_undercover said:
Exactly. I didn't hear Obama's constituents saying he was chosen by God, but I have heard Trump supporters dismiss his unethical behavior by saying God uses imperfect people to perform miracles. I didn't hear Obama calling himself 'the Chosen One', but I literally heard those words come out of Trump's mouth.

There is so much twisted logic being applied to excuse Trump's corruption, most of it in this absurdist 'well, Obama/Hilary started it' playground tone. Even if the American people as a whole were to concede in detail every accusation made against Obama/Hilary, in what world has bad behavior by past individuals been reasonable justification for current bad behavior? That doesn't fly in preschool. I guess we're supposed to give a collective shrug, accept Trump's infallibility, and just quietly go along with whatever he says and does. I can tell you this much: This thread, and the millions of other discussions happening around the world about this exact topic, aren't going to change a thing, because this is precisely where we are as a country at this point-- two camps that refuse to budge on absolutely anything, with an effectively invisible, shrinking swath of moderate folks in the middle of the whole thing. I have no idea what it means or where we're headed, but thinking about it for too long doesn't usually leave me in a positive head space.
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Whatever happens, I've got your back! I was a moderate, independant. I'm not anymore. Not by my choosing, but because I can't support the insanity of Trumpism. People can tell me I have TDS. All that does is identify them as idiots. Trump is special. Very special. I hope I only have to wait until November 2020, but if I have to wait until 2024, I'll be here. I'll still be an American. I'll still be a veteran. I'll still want the best for the USA.
 
The Thriller said:
What are the chances of a new Iranian nuclear agreement? That's the real issue here. We just incentivized them to make a nuclear weapon asap. Do we still kill Soleimani if Iran already has a nuke? Doubt it. So I think shredding the nuclear agreement and escalating this situation the way we have has actually increased the chances of Iran developing a WMD as quickly as possible.

Which is right on Trump's brand. He always screws up. The dude would've made more money had he done nothing with his money and left it in a bank account.
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Oh brother. Have you seen interest rates in banks? They often don't even keep up with inflation.
 
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