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Derek Chauvin Murder Trial

So now Lebron James is tweeting photos of the officer involved in stopping the knife attack saying that "he's next."
 
She was like 6" away from someone trying to stab them. Do you just not understand at all how reality works?
Yep. Cops are trained to be prepared to shoot a knife suspect within 21 feet of the cop or a potential victim. The principle being that someone can get to you in 1.5 seconds with a knife, which is less time than it takes an average cop to draw and fire unaimed shots. When cases like this get protested, it lessens the effect of cop actions that should not happen in any circumstance.

Not that I agree with the 21 foot rule per se, as cops often have their weapons drawn already in this situation, but it is important for cops to protect themselves and others, and have some protection in split second decisions. In the above video, I think the cop didn't do anything "wrong", and if my kid was being attacked by a knife wielder, I hope the cop would do what is needed to project my kid.

I will be the first to say that there are many bad cops, I have been treated poorly by a few. Cops often make demands they have no right to make, and use power to try and make you do whatever they want. It needs to stop. That said, cops have a dangerous job, and have to make split secomd decisions. I will usually side with a cop from not being charged criminally in a split second life or death situation that cops deal with every day if the cop didn't create the situation that caused the shooting (regardless of what Charles Barkley says, the no-knock Brianna Taylor thing was on the cops too, what do they expect breaching in a home unidentified).

A guy I went to high school with was very drunk and his dad called the cops on him. He had a gun with him and a cop "talked him down" and convinced him to come outside with his hands up. He did, with a gun in his hand raised straight in the air. The cops (he was surrounded) ordered him to put the gun down. He started to comply, and they shot him 20 times because they felt threatened. It was ruled a justified shooting even though he was following directions. If you tell a suspect to do something, and you shoot them for it, you should not be a cop.

Then there are situations like this where cops, searching for a suspect, went into a residents back yard and mistook the resident (who was in the yard armed due to someone breaking onto their property) was shot and killed by the police. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1257131

Or the dog that was shot and killed after an officer in SLC climbed over a private fence looking for a little girl.

What is not emphasized by the media is the number of cops that are killed every year. It is a tough job, and good officers have my respect and sympathy.
 
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Yep. Cops are trained to be prepared to shoot a knife suspect within 21 feet of the cop or a potential victim. The principle being that someone can get to you in 1.5 seconds with a knife, which is less time than it takes an average cop to draw and fire unaimed shots. When cases like this get protested, it lessens the effect of cop actions that should not happen in any circumstance.

Not that I agree with the 21 foot rule per se, as cops often have their weapons drawn already in this situation, but it is important for cops to protect themselves and others, and have some protection in split second decisions. In the above video, I think the cop didn't do anything "wrong", and if my kid was being attacked by a knife wielder, I hope the cop would do what is needed to project my kid.

I will be the first to say that there are many bad cops, I have been treated poorly by a few. Cops often make demands they have no right to make, and use power to try and make you do whatever they want. It needs to stop. That said, cops have a dangerous job, and have to make split decisions. I will usually side with a cop from not being charged criminally in a split second life or death situation that cops deal with every day if the cop didn't create the situation that caused the shooting (regardless of what Charles Barkley says, the no-know Brianna Taylor thing was on the cops too, what do they expect breaching in a home unidentified).

A guy I went to high school with was very drunk and his dad called the cops on him. He had a gun with him and a cop "talked him down" and convinced him to come outside with his hands up. He did, with a gun in his hand raised straight in the air. The cops (he was surrounded) ordered him to put the gun down. He started to comply, and they shot him 20 times because they felt threatened. It was ruled a justified shooting even though he was following directions. If you tell a suspect to do something, and you shoot them for it, you should not be a cop.

Then there are situations like this where cops, searching for a suspect, went into a residents back yard and mistook the resident (who was in the yard armed due to someone breaking onto their property) was shot and killed by the police. Or the dog that was shot and killed after an officer in SLC climbed over a private fence looking for a little girl.

What is not emphasized by the media is the number of cops that are killed every year. It is a tough job, and good officers have my respect and sympathy.
We hear about how cops are killed and how tough the job is every time. Outside of the military, there isn't another profession that's worshipped as much by our society. I don't think that's the problem.

What's not emphasized by the media is the number of incidents the cops necessarily escalate each year.
Couldn't one argue that in many cases, death could be avoided if the police weren't involved? Especially for non-violent traffic and drug issues? Think about some of the most high profile killings. Did we really need police to get involved with:

George Floyd: Counterfeit $20 dollar bill
Philando Castile: Traffic stop
Eric Garner: Selling cigarettes
Ronell Foster: Riding a bike without a light
Michael Brown: Stealing cigars
Breona Taylor: Watching tv at home

Why are we bringing the police into these situations? Why are we killing people over $20 bucks and selling cigarettes?

One thing the media doesn't emphasize enough, is how this brutal system affects whites too. Why are we sending the police to escalate situations and execute fellow citizens?
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Sure her life matters. But the other girls she was trying to stab take precedence over hers in that moment.
I think you misunderstood the post you quoted.
I think that candrew was saying "doesn't the girl who was about to be stabbed life matter?"
Basically that the cop did the right thing to shoot the girl as it possibly saved the other girls life

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As for complaints I need more context. Like if chauvin pulled me over for speeding and I was in fact speeding and he gave me the appropriate ticket and told me to have a good day could I still call and complain about him simply cause I was pissed that I got a ticket I deserved?

Is 1 complaint per year way more or way less than is typical for a police officer?
I don't know what a normal amount of complaints would be.
When citizens deal with cops it's usually not for something fun and awesome so maybe even good cops get lots of complaints. Idk.

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Wow. I've only read two posts in this thread since several days ago at least, both yours. Both good.

So the conservative talk shows have Hannity actually supportive of the sentencing, citing facts about time, bruising and the police chief statement that Chauvin was outside of policy in his actions. Hannity says police are inadequately trained citing his own martial arts skills. That kind of "restraint" is never necessary if you know some better methods.

Mark Levin is apoplectic about mobs publicly passing judgment on crimes, and threatening juries. These jurors were threatened.

"Democrat" whathisname the constitutional law guy was saying this is gonna be overturned on appeal. Dershowitz apparently didn't notice how the Supreme Court has at least bent over if not laid down prostrate lately. I don't think they have the spine to overturn it even if there were good reason.

My God, what Chauvin did was beyond all excuse. In his mind, he was teaching some other officers how to maintain control of violent deranged drug case. I've seen a few of those "in the movies" where the big man, not always black, has superhuman strength and just takes down cops and kills them. That is what Derek was trying to manage, in his point of view. But he got carried away with it and didn't appropriately reduce his pin when Floyd was really just in panic and no longer fighting. Derek just sat on him while he died.

However, Derek had not been trained properly, and did not understand the situation. More like he was doing an exhibition for his pupils, not observing the man under his knee. I saw that in the video..... he was actually looking around at others while he was doing this.

As ignorant as he was, he is actually the common sort of policeman, not particularly notable for extremes in his conduct.

I think he had no racist thoughts or intentions and the blame must be shared.
 
Wow. I've only read two posts in this thread since several days ago at least, both yours. Both good.

So the conservative talk shows have Hannity actually supportive of the sentencing, citing facts about time, bruising and the police chief statement that Chauvin was outside of policy in his actions. Hannity says police are inadequately trained citing his own martial arts skills. That kind of "restraint" is never necessary if you know some better methods.

Mark Levin is apoplectic about mobs publicly passing judgment on crimes, and threatening juries. These jurors were threatened.

"Democrat" whathisname the constitutional law guy was saying this is gonna be overturned on appeal. Dershowitz apparently didn't notice how the Supreme Court has at least bent over if not laid down prostrate lately. I don't think they have the spine to overturn it even if there were good reason.

My God, what Chauvin did was beyond all excuse. In his mind, he was teaching some other officers how to maintain control of violent deranged drug case. I've seen a few of those "in the movies" where the big man, not always black, has superhuman strength and just takes down cops and kills them. That is what Derek was trying to manage, in his point of view. But he got carried away with it and didn't appropriately reduce his pin when Floyd was really just in panic and no longer fighting. Derek just sat on him while he died.

However, Derek had not been trained properly, and did not understand the situation. More like he was doing an exhibition for his pupils, not observing the man under his knee. I saw that in the video..... he was actually looking around at others while he was doing this.

As ignorant as he was, he is actually the common sort of policeman, not particularly notable for extremes in his conduct.

I think he had no racist thoughts or intentions and the blame must be shared.
LOL ... "violent deranged drug case" ... I guess you were taking some of those drugs that Joseph Smith took when he talked to God. I guess you didn't know that Chauvin had a run-in with Floyd in the past, which might've played a role in his heartless, cruel snuffing out of Floyd's life. Do you realize that even though Floyd was already dead as testified to by the EMT who arrived on the scene, that Chauvin was still pressing his knee down on Floyd's neck and that the EMT had to ask him to remove it? Babe, you are delusionary. I think you need to go for counseling.
 
George Floyd: Counterfeit $20 dollar bill
Philando Castile: Traffic stop
Eric Garner: Selling cigarettes
Ronell Foster: Riding a bike without a light
Michael Brown: Stealing cigars
Breona Taylor: Watching tv at home

Other than the bike yes cops should have been involved in all of those. They are crimes, that is what police are for. Breona Taylors situation is all convoluted and is not nearly as black and white as some make it out to be.

But yeah, cops should not to take things to level 10 unless there is someone in danger. Take all freaking day trying to get a situation taken care of safely. Don't rush to get physical.
 
New video angle of the Mahkia Bryant shooting from her neighbors security camera across the street. Certainly looks like she is reaching back to stab the girl she has pinned against the car in the stomach. No possible way the cop could have gotten to her before she stabbed her. I don't really see any other way that could have played out other than hoping she's not a great stabber and doesn't deliver a fatal stab.
 
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Other than the bike yes cops should have been involved in all of those. They are crimes, that is what police are for. Breona Taylors situation is all convoluted and is not nearly as black and white as some make it out to be.

But yeah, cops should not to take things to level 10 unless there is someone in danger. Take all freaking day trying to get a situation taken care of safely. Don't rush to get physical.
But riding a bike without a light is also illegal. How are you exempting that?
 
New video angle of the Mahkia Bryant shooting from her neighbors security camera across the street. Certainly looks like she is reaching back to stab the girl she has pinned against the car in the stomach. No possible way the cop could have gotten to her before she stabbed her. I don't really see any other way that could have played out other than hoping she's not a great stabber and does deliver a fatal stab.
I think some people are minimizing the severity of stab wounds. That is lethal force, period. People die from stab wounds just as easily as gunshot wounds.
 
Cops have to make split second decisions that are amongst the hardest an individual can make. You get no second chances or do-overs like a missed possession or a phone call to try and clear things up - it's cemented in time and you wear those scars forever.

People can't always be tased or shot in the legs - if someone is coming at me with a knife with intent, I'd want an officer to take them down.

And if I were ever approaching someone else with a knife, it would be in self-defense. If I saw police had arrived, I'd drop that knife in an instance and put my hands up knowing a civil discussion would defuse the situation.

I get Lebron's emotion and anger, but as a society, we need to get facts and answers first before throwing anyone into the proverbial fire. It's not fair to anyone when that happens and the genie ain't going back into the bottle easily.
 
Cops have to make split second decisions that are amongst the hardest an individual can make. You get no second chances or do-overs like a missed possession or a phone call to try and clear things up - it's cemented in time and you wear those scars forever.

People can't always be tased or shot in the legs - if someone is coming at me with a knife with intent, I'd want an officer to take them down.

And if I were ever approaching someone else with a knife, it would be in self-defense. If I saw police had arrived, I'd drop that knife in an instance and put my hands up knowing a civil discussion would defuse the situation.

I get Lebron's emotion and anger, but as a society, we need to get facts and answers first before throwing anyone into the proverbial fire. It's not fair to anyone when that happens and the genie ain't going back into the bottle easily.
I just wish we held our political leaders to the same standards we're trying to hold professional athletes.

Why put police in a position to escalate the situation and kill someone?

I get if someone is being threatened with a knife. To me, that case is probably justified.

But do we really need police escalating a situation with a lightless bike, minor traffic violation, or someone selling cigarettes? That can't be handled by someone else?

Why put them in a position to potentially execute someone in a split second? And when they kill someone, why isn't there an automatic independent review board to ensure the police weren't acting inappropriately? Letting the police investigate the police is like letting the fox guard the henhouse. This essentially gives the police a license to kill.

No other profession in our country operates like this.
 
I just wish we held our political leaders to the same standards we're trying to hold professional athletes.

Why put police in a position to escalate the situation and kill someone?

I get if someone is being threatened with a knife. To me, that case is probably justified.

But do we really need police escalating a situation with a lightless bike, minor traffic violation, or someone selling cigarettes? That can't be handled by someone else?

Why put them in a position to potentially execute someone in a split second? And when they kill someone, why isn't there an automatic independent review board to ensure the police weren't acting inappropriately? Letting the police investigate the police is like letting the fox guard the henhouse. This essentially gives the police a license to kill.

No other profession in our country operates like this.

Who would be on this "review board"? Who could fairly grade them without having done this incredibly difficult job?
 
I just wish we held our political leaders to the same standards we're trying to hold professional athletes.

Why put police in a position to escalate the situation and kill someone?

I get if someone is being threatened with a knife. To me, that case is probably justified.

But do we really need police escalating a situation with a lightless bike, minor traffic violation, or someone selling cigarettes? That can't be handled by someone else?

Why put them in a position to potentially execute someone in a split second? And when they kill someone, why isn't there an automatic independent review board to ensure the police weren't acting inappropriately? Letting the police investigate the police is like letting the fox guard the henhouse. This essentially gives the police a license to kill.

No other profession in our country operates like this.
We need to train police not to escalate. Having non-police handle "lesser" crimes is not a good idea, as they often turn into dangerous situations. We don't want a new profession of non-police putting themselves at risk. As it is, I appreciate having as many police as we can, but we need new police with different training. Where I live, they don't even investigate burglaries because they are overwhelmed. And if there is a violent crime, odds are cops won't get there in time to save you.

It is about training to deescalate. If you see someone with a gun (and no one in harms way) take a tactical approach to see if the person with a gun will put it down.

Vegas put in a policy that if someone runs the person chasing should not be the one to make the arrest but to coordinate with backup. Use of force went down almost 25%.

I'd like to see more female lead roles, citizen oversight (happens many places) and more education (college degree in a related field with specific courses on deescalation, constitutional law, etc.) I'd also like to see more pay in the profession so we get a better talent pool. Additionally, part of each cops duty should be going to community events to get to know the people they serve and protect. Do all this and I will be happy to have more cops around.
 
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I just wish we held our political leaders to the same standards we're trying to hold professional athletes.

But do we really need police escalating a situation with a lightless bike, minor traffic violation, or someone selling cigarettes? That can't be handled by someone else?

We should be holding everyone to the same standards, including general public opinion.

Police are asked to do a broad range of services that just are not compatible. Makes me think of a Reason TV bit. Check out the clip at about 45 seconds in.

 
As it is, I appreciate having as many police as we can, but we need new police with different training. Where I live, they don't even investigate burglaries because they are overwhelmed.
That's funny, because where I live police sure seem to have a lot of time to write citations and issue fines for minor traffic violations. I guess increasing citation revenues is more important than investigating burglaries.
 
We need to train police not to escalate. Having non-police handle "lesser" crimes is not a good idea, as they often turn into dangerous situations. We don't want a new profession of non-police putting themselves at risk. As it is, I appreciate having as many police as we can, but we need new police with different training. Where I live, they don't even investigate burglaries because they are overwhelmed. And if there is a violent crime, odds are cops won't get there in time to save you.

It is about training to deescalate. If you see someone with a gun (and no one in harms way) take a tactical approach to see if the person with a gun will put it down.

Vegas put in a policy that if someone runs the person chasing shoot not be the one to make the arrest but to coordinate with backup. Use of force went down almost 25%.

I'd like to see more female lead roles, citizen oversight (happens many places) and more education (college degree in a related field with specific courses on deescalation, constitutional law, etc.) I'd also like to see more pay in the profession so we get a better talent pool. Additionally, part of each cops duty should be going to community events to get to know the people they serve and protect. Do all this and I will be happy to have more cops around.
Yeah. Let’s keep letting these guys handle things:



Come on.

The issue is the training has been poor and we don’t need police to escalate all of these non-violent issues. Just the silly automobile issues alone incentives police to focus on the most vulnerable, exploit the poorest, and exacerbate poor relations between races. Seriously, think about it. When the police want to find drugs, are they going to patrol Holladay or West Valley City? And we wonder why the poorest among us are getting fed up with being exploited?

We shouldn't have to rely on the police for everything. They often escalate the situation just with their presence.

Read this before commenting further:

EDIT I couldn't find this earlier but now I have. Why don't we enact reforms like this?
Since June 1, 2020, a mental health clinician and a paramedic have traveled around the city in a white van handling low-level incidents, like trespassing and mental health episodes, that would have otherwise fallen to patrol officers with badges and guns. In its first six months, the Support Team Assisted Response program, or STAR, has responded to 748 incidents. None required police or led to arrests or jail time.
Remember just a few months ago when Salt Lake Police killed an autistic and unarmed 13 year old boy? Why the hell were they the ones responding to this? Couldn't some social workers have handled it?

So we can reform the police with some of these common sense reforms or I guess maintain the status quo since that's working out so well... Cuz the police have hard jobs and no one understands them and we can't ever change anything in this country...
Just curious, isn't anyone getting tired of the defeatist attitude in America? Since when did we become such defeatist losers? We're a bunch of Trump whiners and *******. Whether it be with climate change, gun violence, health care, police brutality... I just don't get it. If the Mormon pioneers had had the same defeatist attitude as current Utahns/Americans, they would've starved to death in one year. "It's just dry here. It's too hot. It's too cold. Building a town in the middle of the Wasatch is too hard and no one understands us."
Cmon guys, we're Americans dammit. We've got a problem with police brutality. There are better ways to serve and protect our communities. Let's fix things!
 
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