Coronavirus

[Bucknutz]

Can someone explain why we are so hung up on where the virus came from? Who stands to benefit if it came from a lab instead of from a meat market? What difference does it make in deaths or treatment if it came from a lab instead of the wild? Is the only implication in the conspiracy theory that it was released fully on purpose by Fauci because he had an evil plan to become the world's scapegoat and Trump's whipping boy for 2 years, because that made him, uh, more rich or something? Weird plan tbh.

We know that virology is happening all over the place, in most every developed nation, all the time. They are fiddling with viruses that could kill swaths of humans, in the efforts to better understand them to more quickly bring remedies to bear when needed. They are also studying super-bacteria to find out how we can keep killing them as they are becoming more and more antibiotic-resistant. Frankly a strong antibiotic-resistant bacteria scares me more than a virus as our bodies tend to handle viruses better overall. I have had the flu for 2 weeks, and COVID for a week, but then I had a raging sinus infection for 4 straight months that almost resulted in them drilling into my sinus to relieve the pressure and allow it to drain in the hopes of stopping the bacteria causing it, because antibiotics were doing nothing. So the threat of something escaping a lab is real and is a risk we take in the efforts to better understand and treat these things when and if they do rise up. But it is also incredibly, incredibly, nearly impossibly rare. In fact can anyone point out a single time a virus got out of a lab and caused any of an epidemic, let alone a pandemic? You know, one that has been PROVEN to have originated in a lab. Not just speculation.

But frankly, the vast majority of deadly diseases are fully natural in origin. The spanish flu was the flu. From DNA research into COVID they did not see the marking of an engineered virus. Even if it did escape from a lab it was likely a normal strain of that particular virus that was carried out somewhere. No one released it on purpose. Get real. Whenever these things are brought up, I always ask "but why?" and mostly the answers are some vague **** about people controlling our lives and don't you know the gubmint lies to you about every ****ing thing?!?!?!11! No one can articulate the supposed benefit to anyone at all for something like this, well for most all conspiracies period.

So again, why does it matter?

This makes me happy. Everyone is in agreement to find out where it came from!

View: https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1634218383808888833?s=20

 

[LogGrad98]

This makes me happy. Everyone is in agreement to find out where it came from!

View: https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1634218383808888833?s=20

I am all for more transparency in government, so this is very good.

Still doesn't answer why it matters.

 

[SteakNEggs]

Can someone explain why we are so hung up on where the virus came from? Who stands to benefit if it came from a lab instead of from a meat market? What difference does it make in deaths or treatment if it came from a lab instead of the wild? Is the only implication in the conspiracy theory that it was released fully on purpose by Fauci because he had an evil plan to become the world's scapegoat and Trump's whipping boy for 2 years, because that made him, uh, more rich or something? Weird plan tbh.

We know that virology is happening all over the place, in most every developed nation, all the time. They are fiddling with viruses that could kill swaths of humans, in the efforts to better understand them to more quickly bring remedies to bear when needed. They are also studying super-bacteria to find out how we can keep killing them as they are becoming more and more antibiotic-resistant. Frankly a strong antibiotic-resistant bacteria scares me more than a virus as our bodies tend to handle viruses better overall. I have had the flu for 2 weeks, and COVID for a week, but then I had a raging sinus infection for 4 straight months that almost resulted in them drilling into my sinus to relieve the pressure and allow it to drain in the hopes of stopping the bacteria causing it, because antibiotics were doing nothing. So the threat of something escaping a lab is real and is a risk we take in the efforts to better understand and treat these things when and if they do rise up. But it is also incredibly, incredibly, nearly impossibly rare. In fact can anyone point out a single time a virus got out of a lab and caused any of an epidemic, let alone a pandemic? You know, one that has been PROVEN to have originated in a lab. Not just speculation.

But frankly, the vast majority of deadly diseases are fully natural in origin. The spanish flu was the flu. From DNA research into COVID they did not see the marking of an engineered virus. Even if it did escape from a lab it was likely a normal strain of that particular virus that was carried out somewhere. No one released it on purpose. Get real. Whenever these things are brought up, I always ask "but why?" and mostly the answers are some vague **** about people controlling our lives and don't you know the gubmint lies to you about every ****ing thing?!?!?!11! No one can articulate the supposed benefit to anyone at all for something like this, well for most all conspiracies period.

So again, why does it matter?

I've explained it and articulated this ad nauseum for years around here... You and the bully mob are just too busy telling me how stupid I am than actually listening. You guys would rather circle jerk each other and bully than actually listen. It's actually embarrassing that you don't understand the importance behind America funding this research then lying and censoring people who tried to stop it. Fauci lying and we now have emails that he coerced doctors with a 9 million dollar payment to cover his ***.

Can you explain why you all bullied me when I educated you on this years ago? Saying it didn't and bullying anybody who was right.

 

[Bucknutz]

Can someone explain why we are so hung up on where the virus came from? Who stands to benefit if it came from a lab instead of from a meat market? What difference does it make in deaths or treatment if it came from a lab instead of the wild? Is the only implication in the conspiracy theory that it was released fully on purpose by Fauci because he had an evil plan to become the world's scapegoat and Trump's whipping boy for 2 years, because that made him, uh, more rich or something? Weird plan tbh.

We know that virology is happening all over the place, in most every developed nation, all the time. They are fiddling with viruses that could kill swaths of humans, in the efforts to better understand them to more quickly bring remedies to bear when needed. They are also studying super-bacteria to find out how we can keep killing them as they are becoming more and more antibiotic-resistant. Frankly a strong antibiotic-resistant bacteria scares me more than a virus as our bodies tend to handle viruses better overall. I have had the flu for 2 weeks, and COVID for a week, but then I had a raging sinus infection for 4 straight months that almost resulted in them drilling into my sinus to relieve the pressure and allow it to drain in the hopes of stopping the bacteria causing it, because antibiotics were doing nothing. So the threat of something escaping a lab is real and is a risk we take in the efforts to better understand and treat these things when and if they do rise up. But it is also incredibly, incredibly, nearly impossibly rare. In fact can anyone point out a single time a virus got out of a lab and caused any of an epidemic, let alone a pandemic? You know, one that has been PROVEN to have originated in a lab. Not just speculation.

But frankly, the vast majority of deadly diseases are fully natural in origin. The spanish flu was the flu. From DNA research into COVID they did not see the marking of an engineered virus. Even if it did escape from a lab it was likely a normal strain of that particular virus that was carried out somewhere. No one released it on purpose. Get real. Whenever these things are brought up, I always ask "but why?" and mostly the answers are some vague **** about people controlling our lives and don't you know the gubmint lies to you about every ****ing thing?!?!?!11! No one can articulate the supposed benefit to anyone at all for something like this, well for most all conspiracies period.

So again, why does it matter?

The reason it matters to me, I have made very clear, is that Government, Media, Family, Forum Posters tried to silence people who had a different opinion, conversation, and thoughts about the matter. There was no healthy discussion about the origins. People on one side just called the others "Wrong", "Conspiracy Theorist" or just made fun of them, because one person said so...


Even though 5 days earlier...

Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19

NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ODNI News Release No. 11-20 April 30, 2020 Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19 WA...

www.dni.gov

"The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan."

If you said this on social media such as FB, YT, Twitter, You were fact checked, flagged and censored by "fact checkers".

Lets take a look at JF posters did to 1 person who brought up 1 report stating it could have came from a lab...







Even in this little political forum on a Utah Jazz Board people were called Conspiracy Theorists for sharing a study.

People are so dismissive of someone else's ideas, with no facts of their own, because it goes against their thoughts or beliefs.

That's why it matters to me. Communication and Information being shut down by people, business or government because they want others to believe their "truth".



As for why where Covid came from matters to me - if we find out it was deliberately leaked. If it was nature or it escaped from the lab without help, then it really doesn't matter to me.

 

[fishonjazz]

Can someone explain why we are so hung up on where the virus came from? Who stands to benefit if it came from a lab instead of from a meat market? What difference does it make in deaths or treatment if it came from a lab instead of the wild? Is the only implication in the conspiracy theory that it was released fully on purpose by Fauci because he had an evil plan to become the world's scapegoat and Trump's whipping boy for 2 years, because that made him, uh, more rich or something? Weird plan tbh.

We know that virology is happening all over the place, in most every developed nation, all the time. They are fiddling with viruses that could kill swaths of humans, in the efforts to better understand them to more quickly bring remedies to bear when needed. They are also studying super-bacteria to find out how we can keep killing them as they are becoming more and more antibiotic-resistant. Frankly a strong antibiotic-resistant bacteria scares me more than a virus as our bodies tend to handle viruses better overall. I have had the flu for 2 weeks, and COVID for a week, but then I had a raging sinus infection for 4 straight months that almost resulted in them drilling into my sinus to relieve the pressure and allow it to drain in the hopes of stopping the bacteria causing it, because antibiotics were doing nothing. So the threat of something escaping a lab is real and is a risk we take in the efforts to better understand and treat these things when and if they do rise up. But it is also incredibly, incredibly, nearly impossibly rare. In fact can anyone point out a single time a virus got out of a lab and caused any of an epidemic, let alone a pandemic? You know, one that has been PROVEN to have originated in a lab. Not just speculation.

But frankly, the vast majority of deadly diseases are fully natural in origin. The spanish flu was the flu. From DNA research into COVID they did not see the marking of an engineered virus. Even if it did escape from a lab it was likely a normal strain of that particular virus that was carried out somewhere. No one released it on purpose. Get real. Whenever these things are brought up, I always ask "but why?" and mostly the answers are some vague **** about people controlling our lives and don't you know the gubmint lies to you about every ****ing thing?!?!?!11! No one can articulate the supposed benefit to anyone at all for something like this, well for most all conspiracies period.

So again, why does it matter?

Lets say we find out that it came from a chinese lab and they released it on purpose. What do we do? Do we go to war with them and watch billions die? Yay for the warmongers I guess but I think that would suck. Do we do nothing at all? Do we impose economic sanctions that would hurt our own citizens?

 

[SteakNEggs]

Lets say we find out that it came from a chinese lab and they released it on purpose. What do we do? Do we go to war with them and watch billions die? Yay for the warmongers I guess but I think that would suck. Do we do nothing at all? Do we impose economic sanctions that would hurt our own citizens?

Personally I'd like to see Fauci and his corrupt counterparts in jail and from the fascist pigs that bullied people, literally protecting China because they are Trump addicts and would rather people die than blame China to hurt Trump a simple apology would be nice. Fish... Red... Thriller... Gameface... Log... Gandalfe...and the OB the pl. I won't hold my breath as you guys were hateful over nothing so why would you have the human decency to apologize if you acted like you all did.

 

[Gameface]

The reason it matters to me, I have made very clear, is that Government, Media, Family, Forum Posters tried to silence people who had a different opinion, conversation, and thoughts about the matter. There was no healthy discussion about the origins. People on one side just called the others "Wrong", "Conspiracy Theorist" or just made fun of them, because one person said so...
View attachment 14009

Even though 5 days earlier...

Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19

NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ODNI News Release No. 11-20 April 30, 2020 Intelligence Community Statement on Origins of COVID-19 WA...

www.dni.gov

"The IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan."

If you said this on social media such as FB, YT, Twitter, You were fact checked, flagged and censored by "fact checkers".

Lets take a look at JF posters did to 1 person who brought up 1 report stating it could have came from a lab...
View attachment 14010

View attachment 14011
View attachment 14017

View attachment 14018

Even in this little political forum on a Utah Jazz Board people were called Conspiracy Theorists for sharing a study.

People are so dismissive of someone else's ideas, with no facts of their own, because it goes against their thoughts or beliefs.

That's why it matters to me. Communication and Information being shut down by people, business or government because they want others to believe their "truth".



As for why where Covid came from matters to me - if we find out it was deliberately leaked. If it was nature or it escaped from the lab without help, then it really doesn't matter to me.

I'd like to clarify something. When I say that seconds after the news of an outbreak broke there were unfounded conspiracies, I'm talking about people wildly speculating literally seconds after the new broke. Not people actually putting in the work to gather actual information.

If you heard news of the outbreak and instantly convinced yourself of a cheesy Hollywood movie plot then it doesn't make you smart or right if down the road some semi-similar version of your unfounded speculation turns out to be true.

 

[SteakNEggs]

I'd like to clarify something. When I say that seconds after the news of an outbreak broke there were unfounded conspiracies, I'm talking about people wildly speculating literally seconds after the new broke. Not people actually putting in the work to gather actual information.

If you heard news of the outbreak and instantly convinced yourself of a cheesy Hollywood movie plot then it doesn't make you smart or right if down the road some semi-similar version of your unfounded speculation turns out to be true.

Or just cowardly backtrack and deny it.

 

[Gameface]

I'd like to clarify something. When I say that seconds after the news of an outbreak broke there were unfounded conspiracies, I'm talking about people wildly speculating literally seconds after the new broke. Not people actually putting in the work to gather actual information.

If you heard news of the outbreak and instantly convinced yourself of a cheesy Hollywood movie plot then it doesn't make you smart or right if down the road some semi-similar version of your unfounded speculation turns out to be true.

You can see this phenomenon with a lot of major news stories. Just after the news broke of the Las Vegas shooting there were people peddling about a false flag psyop. They couldn't have actually known that to be true at the time, there would have been no way to get that information and validate it, but they told their stories all the same as if it were fact. That's a problem. There are a lot of people in our society who have no meaningful ability to evaluate the value of the information (and/or noise) they are being presented with.

 

[LogGrad98]

If it was nature or it escaped from the lab without help, then it really doesn't matter to me.

So 90% of your response was that people were skeptical and said things counter to one person's post, so it was irritating, and they weren't very nice about it. And then this quote at the end. Again, exactly my point. In the grand scheme of things it just doesn't matter. I recognize we have posters who tend to express their opinion strongly and demand proof and evidence of claims, and then dispute and challenge those claims, that is normal discourse and how progress works, people don't just "take your word for it" very much, but that is how we get robust ideas and move forward as a society, but challenging new ideas to be proven. But I do not think that translates into...

Communication and Information being shut down by people, business or government because they want others to believe their "truth".

At least not here in Jazz Fanz.

Really in any exchange there are people who support ideas, and those who have other ideas, and those skeptical of all of the ideas on one side or another. You also see reactions that might be rude, or hostile, or supportive, or dismissive, or name a response (just check twitter for the full gamut of ****). If you haven't noticed these guys have been dealing with some pretty obvious trollery for a while now, actually for a long time, and yes there are trolls everywhere, I get that. But that means you are likely seeing more harsh responses to counter information than you might see otherwise. It isn't an excuse, it is just the nature of the beast at this point. This is why I have bowed out of most of these conversations and have put certain folks on ignore.

I agree that freedom of speech is just about the most important freedom we have. But that doesn't mean freedom from disagreement or even ridicule, or rudeness, or whatever you want to call it. Throw out a new idea, it is bound to get strong detractors, especially if it is bucking the currently known and accepted information. It has nothing to do with "truth", really, it has to do with the fact that we as humans have a hard time separating our ideas and beliefs from our sense of self, so it can feel like a personal attack and people tend to respond accordingly. I do not think you really believe that anyone here is dogmatically trying to institutionalize their version of "truth" into Jazz Fanz or wherever else, not in this group of posters. We have some hard-core separatists, some pragmatists, some conciliators, and some wild cards, so pretty much what you get in any group like this. I think overall the majority of the group leans left, some very strongly, but part of that is due to the fact that much of what the right espouses is viewed as, and even in some cases objectively proven to be, straight up lunacy and dangerous. That will tend to push people who hover in he middle in the other direction. So being somewhat right leaning you and others may be facing an uphill battle here.

But I for one have welcomed your point of view because it is more balanced than others pushing the agenda more on the right of the spectrum. But I do not believe anyone is trying to shut anyone else down entirely. Requiring evidence and proof is reasonable, especially when the claimed ideas are not as well established or supported as current idea, such as the wuhan virus. We had all kinds of medical professions and scientists who established it was wild in origin. Then we had a random, non-scientific arm of the federal government claiming it came from a lab, and people were skeptical and asked for more proof, more evidence, and imo rightly so. That is reasonable. And if someone acts like it is unreasonable, or they are unwilling to analyze their sources and reject those that are unreliable or insufficient, well that is where we start to get into the realm of conspiracy theories. Same goes for not being willing to analyze someone else's sources and accept when they are well-reasoned and fact-based and are evidence-based, and again, being willing to adjust their opinion accordingly.

But getting humans to change their minds once they are made up is very difficult. That tie in to the sense of self is strong reinforcement to stick with what we know, and reject anything that runs counter to it. And get a bunch of like-minded people together and group-think is bound to happen. Doesn't mean there cannot be discourse, but you cannot expect every new idea to be accepted fully with open arms without strong debate. That just isn't how it works.

 

[LogGrad98]

You can see this phenomenon with a lot of major news stories. Just after the news broke of the Las Vegas shooting there were people peddling about a false flag psyop. They couldn't have actually known that to be true at the time, there would have been no way to get that information and validate it, but they told their stories all the same as if it were fact. That's a problem. There are a lot of people in our society who have no meaningful ability to evaluate the value of the information (and/or noise) they are being presented with.

Well and people use those things to reinforce their biases. They know it happened that way because we have always known that is what the government does and so of course this was a psyop because how could it not be. Circular conspiratorial arguments abound in such situations.

 

[One Brow]

This makes me happy. Everyone is in agreement to find out where it came from!

I'm not sure this question is worth exposing intelligence sources. If it only went to the intelligence committees, maybe.

 

[LogGrad98]

Lets say we find out that it came from a chinese lab and they released it on purpose. What do we do? Do we go to war with them and watch billions die? Yay for the warmongers I guess but I think that would suck. Do we do nothing at all? Do we impose economic sanctions that would hurt our own citizens?

Exactly. Realistically it changes nothing, other than maybe forming an international body, or using the WHO to try to enforce stronger standards of safety on chinese labs. Beyond that, it means nothing. But people are acting like it is some huge smoking gun to do...what exactly? No one can answer that questions because there is no answer beyond "because it pisses me off" or something similar.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not sure this question is worth exposing intelligence sources. If it only went to the intelligence committees, maybe.

My assumption would be it would release the data only, not the sources.

 

[One Brow]

America funding this research then lying and censoring people who tried to stop it.

The science is clear that the virus is natural, whether it leaked from a lab or was transmitted in the wild. Either way, you're wrong.

 

[SteakNEggs]

The science is clear that the virus is natural, whether it leaked from a lab or was transmitted in the wild. Either way, you're wrong.

Liar

 

[One Brow]

My assumption would be it would release the data only, not the sources.

One of the things I occasionally need to do is distort data in random ways in order to make it more difficult (certainly mot impossible) to trace back to a patient. It's really hard to release data and hide the source of your data.

 

[One Brow]

Liar

Coming from you, that is a compliment.

 

[SteakNEggs]

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/CatchUpNetwork/status/1633517894083686400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1633517894083686400%7Ctwgr%5Ed1f00c94a15b27e8b4e20eab15a31c6d4adbb6f8%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2Fnews%2Fantithetical-to-science-ex-cdc-director-takes-fauci-to-task-for-suppressing-lab-leak-theory%2F

 

[One Brow]

The reason it matters to me, I have made very clear, is that Government, Media, Family, Forum Posters tried to silence people who had a different opinion, conversation, and thoughts about the matter. There was no healthy discussion about the origins.

I thank you for calling me out, among others. I was too narrow-minded, in that I connected "lab leak" with "lab created", and I regret that confusion led to unfair criticism of you and others.