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Dame Time

KqWIN said:
Did you just say FTA has always been the golden measure of self creation? That is legitimately one of the most laughable claims I have heard on this site lol. And you have the gall to dismiss my argument because of “basic stats”. I legitimately do not know how you landed on the conclusion that FTA=Self creation and also that this is somehow a gold standard.

Having said that, the “dribbling” argument raised this stupidly to another level. Yeah, forgive me for thinking self creation is when you score after dribbling and not after receiving a pass to score. What an idiot I am….obviously if you score without being assisted it is not self created if you dribbled. Also, your assists don’t matter because there exists players not even being compared that have more assists so unless you have the most assists it doesn’t matter. Wow.

But wait….how could I forget about rebounding. You know what, creating offense is all about rebounding. That’s obviously what is meant by “creating offense” and being an “offensive engine”.

This is a pathetic argument for something that is blatantly obvious. But I guess if rebounding and FTA = self creation I have no idea what self creation means. There is one player who uses nearly half his possessions as a PnR ball handler or in Isolation. The other player uses less the 10%. It’s about a 5x difference. But it’s the rebounding, FTA, and lack of dribbling that actually represents self created offense.

There is a major difference in the way they get their offense, and yes it does matter. Lauri pushes the bounds for the amount of shots he can gets. Like I said, he does create more of these looks than anyone else in the league because of his talent. But there is a cap on how much of these kinds of looks you can get, and he can’t get them alone.

Steve Nash won an MVP with less PPG, half the FTA, and like 10 less rebounds than Gobert had last season. You mean to tell me Steve Nash was not the creator Gobert was? Laughable. This argument is so bad it deserves the instant ignore that on Eddie Zero has achieved.
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I have to return to the FTA comment since I didn't pay it enough homage on my previous post.

Are you saying FTA is not a way to measure any dimension of self-creation? Notice how I ask what you mean, instead of proclaiming you said something you didn't. However you did say its the most laughable claim ever so I guess I'm completely off with this. I'm excited to hear your arguments on this matter! Hopefully they are deeper than "your opinion is trash" which is essentially all you said in that previous post...

I can start with an easy argument. Free throw attempts lead to points. So being good at getting to the line means you get more points.

Your turn. Dismiss my argument or provide a counter-argument. This should be fun.
 
People really think Mitchell was going to re-sign in Utah still?! The FO has pretty much confirmed that wasn't happening if Mitchell's comments haven't been enough for some people.

Mitchell and Lauri are pretty equal in value now. Which is strong proof of winning the trade. There's an argument for either one getting better.
 
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At first it's a hard no for me. He is going to be 33 next year and has a crazy high salary for way too long. But he is having a career year and is really good. For me I would only be interested if we didn't give up much, like maybe one young player like sexton or ochai and 2 1st at most. He would give us a very small window and I'm less interested in that.
 
HermanG said:
To further emphasize how injuried derailed them... here is another comparison. Their most played lineup last year managed to only play 225 minutes during the regular season.

Cavs this years most played lineup:
Garland - Mitchell - Okoro - Mobley - Allen.... net rating +4.9 in 258 minutes together

Cavs last years most played lineup:
Garland - Markkanen - Okoro - Mobley - Allen... net rating +11.6 in 225 minutes together
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A 225 minute sample size is a lot, lmao.
 
YoungJefe said:
A 225 minute sample size is a lot, lmao.
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Well its if you say so then Cavs starters last year with Lauri were 6.7 rating points better than this year with Don which is quite significant.

I just think we dont know how good they would have been. The Jarret Allen injury derailed them more than anything. Their record dipped bad after Allen was lost... but that big lineup with Lauri at 3 was a huge problem for their opponents on both ends for a while.
 
HermanG said:
Well its if you say so then Cavs starters last year with Lauri were 6.7 rating points better than this year with Don which is quite significant.

I just think we dont know how good they would have been. The Jarret Allen injury derailed them more than anything. Their record dipped bad after Allen was lost... but that big lineup with Lauri at 3 was a huge problem for their opponents on both ends for a while.
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Their biggest problem is they have glaring deficits on the wing, which were compounded by including Lauri in the Donovan trade, and they went smaller in the backcourt with two bad defenders.

Lauri didn't play the same way for the Cavs, so it is hard to say how valuable he would have been, and if his international play last summer would have made a change with the Cavs coaching staff. Probably not, as all the press was stating they were revamping the offense to go through Mobley more, which clearly didn't happen after the trade. They also traded a lower usage player for a higher usage player, which likely hurts Mobleys ability to develop offensively.

Both players are good, but I'd rather have Lauri for the Jazz, even if Don would have stayed, but we saw how checked out he was on both ends last year.

Don's been a different player with the Cavs (as has Lauri with the Jazz). As it stands, even without the picks, I think the Jazz won the trade. If the picks end up being mid to high draft picks, then the Jazz won the trade in a landslide.

I personally like more team ball, with less usage from any one player, so I really like Lauri and how he is able to score within the system so efficiently.
 
I don't think for a second that Ainge wouldn't trade half of our collection of assets for 2 max player contracts if he thought they made us a contender.

15 draft picks and cap space means that we COULD go that route. Lauri, Kessler, and flexibility makes it more than a passing consideration.

What if Kawhi is done in Clipperland after the playoffs? How about PG? What big name star is grumpy and who can give up the most for them? AINGE CAN...

DAME makes a ton of sense until you consider age and salary. But given those two, its likely a pass.
 
Get Dame if you want to be in the mix the next 3 years. But beyond it would turn out as a big cost. However, I would love to see this team ramp that quickly and compete. I don't see another super star willingly coming to Utah.
 
Wonder if the Jazz would make the move to bring in Dame. If we have an awesome draft/off-season. And cash in a bunch of assets at the deadline next year to make a full on contending move… would be exciting.
 
Damn painted himself into a corner by only wanting to play for teams that start with "O" as he'll only wear the number Zero.

(Growing up in Oakland, College ball in Ogden, NBA ball in Oregon)

So.. unless we can find him another "O" and give him a reason to move, we're out of luck.
 
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