Zimmerman/Martin Jury

[babe]

but they were allowed to consider a charge of manslaughter, right? and the state couldn't prove that to a sufficient degree to convince the jury - granted, that wasn't what they were really aiming for but still...


in related news - is anyone besides me troubled by the tweet of Zimmerman's brother saying he's "proud to be an American" because of the verdict?
sort of makes me sick to my stomach...

I'd be more concerned about having our judicial process displaced by Mainstream Media howlers pushing for social justice. I don't suppose you can connect the dots between "Remember the Maine", the WWI anthem "Over There", and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" to name just a few media-mediated American insanities.

I'm not especially proud to be an "American" when I review the history of the Trail of Tears for the Cherokee tribe, or Kit Carson's re-enactment of it on a smaller scale marching Navajos to the west Texas desert. We do have some credits for doing better as occupying forces after WWII than say the Japanese were during that war, but we are losing that reputation now with some of the behaviors we have seen by our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Overall, it is a huge historic tragedy that the United States has become the jackbooted policeman for the United Nations and globalism. I wonder why our media ignores our present global fascism political agenda and can't accept the fact that a stupid black kid decided to go pound a stupid Hispanic who was trying to get an exact address for a stupid dispatcher who couldn't just say "The police on on their way, now go home." uhhmmmm.... twice.

But most of all, it makes me sick to my stomach that "Americans" can be mesmerized by an insanely biased major media that ignores every single fact of the story to make this a racial issue. I guess it's true that if you get some talking heads in suits and/or skirts hosting daily shows, pushing some particular view of the "news" with priestly intonations about what is acceptable in society, you really can get "society" going in practically any self-righteous way you want.

uhhhmmmmmm. . . . .

well, except for maybe six women who actually got to hear the evidence and did consider the facts. five of them mothers, mind you, who decided to care to have their own kids live in a world that is not fundamentally a "mob".

 

[♪alt13]

Bull ****. You don't know that. And to assume that white people are happy that Trayvon is dead? Come on.

yeah that's probably a little harsh. I just don't think a white kid would get the same treatment. Like he deserved it cause he smoked weed. It's 2013 and this whole thing has been a poor reflection on all of us.

 

[AlaskanAssassin]

I had the "opportunity" to serve as a Juror for a murder trial about 4 years ago, and it saddens me that the jurors are being targeted by some. Trust me, it's not easy being a juror. Two sides making arguments and having someone's life in your hands. With the limited information we have, I think what it boils down to is that Zimmerman had severe hand-to-hand combat wounds on his nose and head, whereas Martin only had wounds on his knuckles (outside of the gunshot wound, of course). How can you convict Zimmerman of anything when there is no concrete eye-witness statements and much of the evidence is washed away in the rain?

I think that Zimmerman was appropriately acquitted, but I don't necessarily think he's innocent.

 

[LogGrad98]

Bull ****. You don't know that. And to assume that white people are happy that Trayvon is dead? Come on.

Well of course they all are, haven't you seen Django Unchained? I mean that is a movie about today, right? The current state of affairs. Isn't it?



Oh.

 

[LogGrad98]

I had the "opportunity" to serve as a Juror for a murder trial about 4 years ago, and it saddens me that the jurors are being targeted by some. Trust me, it's not easy being a juror. Two sides making arguments and having someone's life in your hands. With the limited information we have, I think what it boils down to is that Zimmerman had severe hand-to-hand combat wounds on his nose and head, whereas Martin only had wounds on his knuckles (outside of the gunshot wound, of course). How can you convict Zimmerman of anything when there is no concrete eye-witness statements and much of the evidence is washed away in the rain?

I think that Zimmerman was appropriately acquitted, but I don't necessarily think he's innocent.

IMHO "innocence" is a gradient scale, not an absolute. He is innocent enough to not be convicted of a crime under the laws of our society. Is he completely innocent of all morally wrong-doing or mistakes in the situation as presented? Probably not.

But then no one is innocent, really, except maybe babies and EJ.

Well babies anyway.

 

[LogGrad98]

I'd be more concerned about having our judicial process displaced by Mainstream Media howlers pushing for social justice. I don't suppose you can connect the dots between "Remember the Maine", the WWI anthem "Over There", and "Weapons of Mass Destruction" to name just a few media-mediated American insanities.

I'm not especially proud to be an "American" when I review the history of the Trail of Tears for the Cherokee tribe, or Kit Carson's re-enactment of it on a smaller scale marching Navajos to the west Texas desert. We do have some credits for doing better as occupying forces after WWII than say the Japanese were during that war, but we are losing that reputation now with some of the behaviors we have seen by our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Overall, it is a huge historic tragedy that the United States has become the jackbooted policeman for the United Nations and globalism. I wonder why our media ignores our present global fascism political agenda and can't accept the fact that a stupid black kid decided to go pound a stupid Hispanic who was trying to get an exact address for a stupid dispatcher who couldn't just say "The police on on their way, now go home." uhhmmmm.... twice.

But most of all, it makes me sick to my stomach that "Americans" can be mesmerized by an insanely biased major media that ignores every single fact of the story to make this a racial issue. I guess it's true that if you get some talking heads in suits and/or skirts hosting daily shows, pushing some particular view of the "news" with priestly intonations about what is acceptable in society, you really can get "society" going in practically any self-righteous way you want.

uhhhmmmmmm. . . . .

well, except for maybe six women who actually got to hear the evidence and did consider the facts. five of them mothers, mind you, who decided to care to have their own kids live in a world that is not fundamentally a "mob".

This is the part us armchair jurors tend to push to the side in these cases. We get the parts of the story that the media want us to hear, and then we decide that the people who sat through the entire trial, heard every single piece of evidence in its context, and had the fate of another human being in the palms of their hands, are morons and don't know anything because OF COURSE OJ KILLED HIS WIFE AND HER LOVER. HOW MORE OBVIOUS COULD IT BE. OF COURSE THIS GUY TARGETED TRAYVON AND HUNTED HIM DOWN LIKE A DOG AND SHOT HIM IN COLD BLOOD. JEEZ WHAT IDIOT CAN'T SEE THAT. HOW CAN THOSE JURORS BE SUCH STUPID MORONIC PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN'T SEE THE PLAIN FACTS OF THE CASE. WOW WHERE DO THEY DIG UP THESE RUBES ANYWAY! DID THEY GIVE AN IQ TEST AND TAKE ANYONE WHO THOUGHT THAT IQ WAS JUST THE CORRECT ORDER OF LETTERS IN THE ALPHABET?

[/hyperbole]

 

[candrew]

Not sure how trust worry that site is but rioting in Miami.

Rumors (unconfirmed) of rioting in Dallas.

Edit: Took it down as there was some potentially offensive language.

Turns out that rioting in the video was from Vancouver after the 2011 Stanley Cup.

The mountains in the background right was probably the giveaway - not many mountains in Florida.

 

[trigg3r]

The race of Zimmermen is not the significant factor(not very dark is he). People have been looking for any excuse to say that trayvon deserved it. I think there is a disconcerting good riddance feeling among many white people(jury). A self defense defense would not have worked for zimmerman if he shot trevor the 17 year old white kid.

Race played a factor in this trial from day one. If you don't believe that, I have some swamp land for sale. Great price.

 

[babe]

Race played a factor in this trial from day one. If you don't believe that, I have some swamp land for sale. Great price.

you won't make a buck calling it swamp land.

race was not an issue except to social engineers/progressive agenda pushers. For the kids on the street it was "turf" maybe, but not race. Zimmers would have called the cops and followed the figure in the dark whether the figure was black or white, and a white version of the troubled teen wanderer might have decided to go back and teach him some manners too.

The telling thing is that had it been a white kid, the race-baiters wouldn't have given a crap about him.

oh, I don't dispute the figures given above about disproportionate punishments for blacks in the legal process, or for po'whites, compared to those who "fit in" with the general staff of our police and judicial system. One of the reasons is the troubled white kids are more likely to have parents who will show up and give the judges and cops some support for believing the kid has someone who will be working with him to address his issues. It should not be made out to be cut-and-dried racism, but people in the system trying to respond constructively if there is any reason to hope things can get better.

 

[Stoked]

BS I know people who have gotten ssi for severe depression. You don't think death threats are depressing?

It has to be proven medically and prevent you from all gainful activity. That I on top of SSI being a welfare program. So his income and assets will be taken into consideration. So from this I'd be floore if Zimmerman didn't profit in some way. That profit will most likely lead to an automatically denial on SSI and they won't even get into medical info.

So again, it doesn't work that way.

 

[♪alt13]

It has to be proven medically and prevent you from all gainful activity. That I on top of SSI being a welfare program. So his income and assets will be taken into consideration. So from this I'd be floore if Zimmerman didn't profit in some way. That profit will most likely lead to an automatically denial on SSI and they won't even get into medical info.

So again, it doesn't work that way.

Profit. Exactly my original point. Retirement! If he doesn't get a book deal and nothing else works out he will get ssi for depression. How exactly do you think people "medically prove" depression? Yeah here's my blood work and cat scan that shows my depression.

 

[Stoked]

Profit. Exactly my original point. Retirement! If he doesn't get a book deal and nothing else works out he will get ssi for depression. How exactly do you think people "medically prove" depression? Yeah here's my blood work and cat scan that shows my depression.

Haha. People prove it by giving their doctors names and addresses to Social Security. And it's between social security and the doctor. Plus there are a boatload of forms that ask about all resources (vehicles, bank acts, property, stocks...). Not to mention the income and resources of their spouse. So let us say that it is medically proven that Zimmerman is medically disabled and his disability prevents him from all types of substantial gainful activity. Then we talk about his wife and she has a decent job. Denied!

Your lack of full knowledge on SSI amuses me.

 

[LogGrad98]

Haha. People prove it by giving their doctors names and addresses to Social Security. And it's between social security and the doctor. Plus there are a boatload of forms that ask about all resources (vehicles, bank acts, property, stocks...). Not to mention the income and resources of their spouse. So let us say that it is medically proven that Zimmerman is medically disabled and his disability prevents him from all types of substantial gainful activity. Then we talk about his wife and she has a decent job. Denied!

Your lack of full knowledge on SSI amuses me.

This is correct. In fact most claims for SSI get denied if they do not have objective medical evidence of a physically debilitating condition, like a chronic disease or loss of limb or something similar. Then it goes through an appeal process in which they hold a hearing with a judge to hear the appeal. Many of these appeals are people claiming mental anguish/illness or undistinguished medical conditions, like "my back hurts when I stand more than 10 minutes". There is also testimony presented from a vocational expert who reviews the case and presents possible employment options given the individual's condition and restrictions, as well as current labor stats regarding those professions. A relatively high number of them get approved, but there are still lots of hoops to jump through.



[source: my wife is a VHR (verbatim hearing recorder) for the ODAR office of the SSA, in which she makes a transcript and recording of these types of hearings as they happen. some of the stories she can relate are mind-boggling.]

 

[Stoked]

This is correct. In fact most claims for SSI get denied if they do not have objective medical evidence of a physically debilitating condition, like a chronic disease or loss of limb or something similar. Then it goes through an appeal process in which they hold a hearing with a judge to hear the appeal. Many of these appeals are people claiming mental anguish/illness or undistinguished medical conditions, like "my back hurts when I stand more than 10 minutes". There is also testimony presented from a vocational expert who reviews the case and presents possible employment options given the individual's condition and restrictions, as well as current labor stats regarding those professions. A relatively high number of them get approved, but there are still lots of hoops to jump through.



[source: my wife is a VHR (verbatim hearing recorder) for the ODAR office of the SSA, in which she makes a transcript and recording of these types of hearings as they happen. some of the stories she can relate are mind-boggling.]

I find your source to be very interesting.

 

[fallenchicken]

One thing that's certain ********: Zimmerman's lawyer saying that if Zimmerman was black he wouldn't have been charged.

BS. If Zimmerman was black he'd be in jail for thirty years and the right wing wouldn't be defending him.

Other than that, I'm just glad this trial is over so we can get to the real news...

nah that won't happen. The media will find a new trial to cover instead.

 

[Stoked]

One thing that's certain ********: Zimmerman's lawyer saying that if Zimmerman was black he wouldn't have been charged.

BS. If Zimmerman was black he'd be in jail for thirty years and the right wing wouldn't be defending him.

Other than that, I'm just glad this trial is over so we can get to the real news...

nah that won't happen. The media will find a new trial to cover instead.

This isn't over. The DOJ is looking into civil rights charges and I bet a civil case is brought.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/14/justice/zimmerman-what-next/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

[trigg3r]

you won't make a buck calling it swamp land.

race was not an issue except to social engineers/progressive agenda pushers. For the kids on the street it was "turf" maybe, but not race. Zimmers would have called the cops and followed the figure in the dark whether the figure was black or white, and a white version of the troubled teen wanderer might have decided to go back and teach him some manners too.

The telling thing is that had it been a white kid, the race-baiters wouldn't have given a crap about him.

oh, I don't dispute the figures given above about disproportionate punishments for blacks in the legal process, or for po'whites, compared to those who "fit in" with the general staff of our police and judicial system. One of the reasons is the troubled white kids are more likely to have parents who will show up and give the judges and cops some support for believing the kid has someone who will be working with him to address his issues. It should not be made out to be cut-and-dried racism, but people in the system trying to respond constructively if there is any reason to hope things can get better.

A false narrative presented by the media about race is why this case was even prosecuted. So race played a huge factor in this whole case even being tried.

 

[fallenchicken]

This isn't over. The DOJ is looking into civil rights charges and I bet a civil case is brought.

https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/14/justice/zimmerman-what-next/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I hope it ends. Not good for anyone if feds get involved, imo.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

When my wife first read me the verdict, she read it wrong and said that Zimmerman was convicted on 2nd degree murder. I felt sick about that, as I do not think what happened rises to that level. I actually felt relief when she said 'whoops, I mean acquitted.' While I do think based only on what I know that Zimmerman's actions were the primary cause of the tragedy that night, and I think a manslaughter conviction might have been justified, 2nd degree murder was a huge overreach and, though I think Zimmerman should be held responsible in some way for what happened, I prefer a non-guilty verdict to 2nd degree murder conviction.

 

[♪alt13]

This is correct. In fact most claims for SSI get denied if they do not have objective medical evidence of a physically debilitating condition, like a chronic disease or loss of limb or something similar. Then it goes through an appeal process in which they hold a hearing with a judge to hear the appeal. Many of these appeals are people claiming mental anguish/illness or undistinguished medical conditions, like "my back hurts when I stand more than 10 minutes". There is also testimony presented from a vocational expert who reviews the case and presents possible employment options given the individual's condition and restrictions, as well as current labor stats regarding those professions. A relatively high number of them get approved, but there are still lots of hoops to jump through.



[source: my wife is a VHR (verbatim hearing recorder) for the ODAR office of the SSA, in which she makes a transcript and recording of these types of hearings as they happen. some of the stories she can relate are mind-boggling.]

My sister works in a law office that specializes in ssi claims. Sure you will be denied before you lawyer up, not after.

I personally know someone who is on ssi because he can no longer work in his field due to ruining his reputation with a cocaine addiction. Originally denied. He got a lawyer and is currently retired on disability insurance. As for assets they were transfered into his childrens names.