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Transgender and sports

But unless you are a scientist dealing in such issues, why does it matter to you? Does it make you feel superior in some way?

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I can't think of a academic discipline more enveloped into the idea of gender than anthropology. Anthropologists identify, describe, and catalogue gender across societal populations, like the third gender Lhamana in the Zuni tribe. I wouldn't have a degree in Anthropology if I didn't have interest in the topics of the discipline.
 
I know you hesitate to spend much time with this stuff on jazzfanz, but I appreciate the information you have.
So here's the thing, gender roles and all things that a gender represented is completely made up by the people who participate in that society. And even then, there's going to be vagueness, especially when population size grows and grows. What it means to be man, or woman, or Lhamana or whatever will change as the population changes. It's fluid. Equating sex to gender is easy to refute. If male = man, here's a nice picture of this man, thusly so because he is male.

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Look at that man. He's male, so he's a man.

Counterargument might be, an ADULT male. Well, you just made an admission that gender is not definable by sex alone, thus sex =! gender. Whatever the society determines is what goes. I always got the impression in classes that gender is an idealistic expectation, though what defines that idealistic expection is incredible wide across cultures and incredibly fluid since the population changes all the time. And yes, gender is related to sex, but since culture and society is complicated, so is gender. Sex is simple, well, in comparison.

The extent I can go into gender is limited due to having just a bachelor's degree and not a Ph.D, and being graduated nearly 20 years now, so it takes a long time to formulate responses. It's easy to learn, hard to teach. Plus my Anthropological interests have never been into anything gender related. There is one particular line of questioning relating to transgenderism that I've had that is better suited for some in the field rather than an internet message board, but that's about it when it comes to gender.
 
And we all know you can tell everything important about a person from their skeleton.
Oh you thought i said that you can tell everything important about a person from their skeleton. Didn't mean to confuse you. I didn't say that.
I was responding to the comment: "For instance in the legislative hearing yesterday when one of the state Senators said “There’s no way of knowing the difference of a man or woman” there’s a reason people scoff at that and think the person saying it is entirely insane and agenda driven themselves."
If someone says something like "there is no way of knowing the difference of a man or woman" then i have to agree with oneye that statement sounds insane to me.
 
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So here's the thing, gender roles and all things that a gender represented is completely made up by the people who participate in that society. And even then, there's going to be vagueness, especially when population size grows and grows. What it means to be man, or woman, or Lhamana or whatever will change as the population changes. It's fluid. Equating sex to gender is easy to refute. If male = man, here's a nice picture of this man, thusly so because he is male.

View attachment 11868

Look at that man. He's male, so he's a man.

Counterargument might be, an ADULT male. Well, you just made an admission that gender is not definable by sex alone, thus sex =! gender. Whatever the society determines is what goes. I always got the impression in classes that gender is an idealistic expectation, though what defines that idealistic expection is incredible wide across cultures and incredibly fluid since the population changes all the time. And yes, gender is related to sex, but since culture and society is complicated, so is gender. Sex is simple, well, in comparison.

The extent I can go into gender is limited due to having just a bachelor's degree and not a Ph.D, and being graduated nearly 20 years now, so it takes a long time to formulate responses. It's easy to learn, hard to teach. Plus my Anthropological interests have never been into anything gender related. There is one particular line of questioning relating to transgenderism that I've had that is better suited for some in the field rather than an internet message board, but that's about it when it comes to gender.
Once again, it is nice to have an educated perspective on the issue.
 
So you're willing to "play along" with a person claiming a gender that they are not just to keep the peace, just to preserve their "delusion."

Yeah we heard you the first time.
I’m willing to not treat someone like dirt because of what they’re going through yes.
 
At least I can explain and justify my positions. All you're doing is saying I'm lying, and without a single bit of evidence you can bring to back that up. Your position is nothing but hollow assertions. It might as well be a religion.
You haven’t explained or justified anything, just talked in lala talk.

Biology is much more complex than what you were taught in 5th grade.
Complex? Sure. There’s a thing called male and female and they’re what the existence of essentially any vertebrate species relies on.

Once again, it is nice to have an educated perspective on the issue.
This doesn’t refute any point you think it does.
 
And we all know you can tell everything important about a person from their skeleton.
I can tell if that Skelton is from a male or female…in literally any vertebrate species, and usually it’s pretty obvious.
 
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Remember, it’s about preserving the integrity of women’s sports. It’s nothing about preying on bigotry to try and keep a base that hasn’t gotten over Obergefell angry and engaged for the midterms…



I wish posters on here could see these sweeping reforms quickly being stuffed down their throats for what they truly are. Yesterday, Utah’s legislature quickly passed a ban in special session. Many delegates voiced anger from their base that the legislature had been stymied by the Republican governor and threatened primaries for incumbents that didn’t help to override the gov’s veto. And today is the GOP convention where GOP legislators up for re-election faced party delegates. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.

There’s a real opportunity to have an adult conversation about women’s sports and improving the lives of LGBT students. Unfortunately, the political party in charge of most state legislatures, including Utah’s, has no interest in that. Much easier to just prey on bigotry.

Monson has some good thoughts

And most on the other side of that argument have no interest in acknowledging reality so yes we are not in a wonderful place as far as this conversation goes. One side wants to ban them(wrong) and one side wants to pretend we live in a delusion and not reality(also wrong).
 
This doesn’t refute any point you think it does.
That changes nothing about how I feel about the inclusion of an educated perspective. You have no idea what my motivations are, obviously and you have exposed your own mindset that you will only acknowledge the validity of information if it conforms to your point of view.
 
ou haven’t explained or justified anything, just talked in lala talk.
I've gone over my understandings multiple times in multiple threads, but I appreciate you haven't had opportunity to read most of them. What's something you think I've said that I can't substantiate?

Complex? Sure. There’s a thing called male and female and they’re what the existence of essentially any vertebrate species relies on.
Except where they don't, like the lizards the reproduce asexually, and the people who are not exclusively male nor exclusively female on a biological level exist.

This doesn’t refute any point you think it does.

educated perspectives generally aim to enlighten, not refute.
 

Steven Crowder seems to be about your speed.

A trans person wins among the slowest batch of swimmers in more than a decade, and everyone goes nuts, because it's unfair that the other girls were too slow to compete in any year except this one.
 
Steven Crowder seems to be about your speed.

A trans person wins among the slowest batch of swimmers in more than a decade, and everyone goes nuts, because it's unfair that the other girls were too slow to compete in any year except this one.
There were some interesting points made in the exchange such as trans athletes being allowed double the level of testosterone that female athletes are allowed to have without that female athlete being banned from the sport for doping, and that if sports are divided among genders then it must require making 57 different (or however many genders there are) divisions but sports are current sports are two divisions because our species has two biological sexes.
 
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